Is Submission a gift

[denuseri]

Of course it is a gift

the gift of ultimate trust

Trust never comes without uncertiantly, its what in a way Kierkagarurd calls "the leap of faith".

"Love too has it's pitfalls, and what is love if not the ultimate form of trust.

Hence the courage to embrace one's nature is not easy to come by.

The truest test of a relationship comes with time and actions, for they speak far louder than mere words.

It is my belief that giving all of oneself to a relationship can only be achieved in utter submission to one's partner in the way nature intended. My interpetation of nature's intentions is obvious as I am in every way the slave of my owner.

If he is strong he will not let me falter, he will provide the dominance nessesary to compliment my need for submission.

I must trust that if I give to him my all and submit to his desires that he will recognize the full value of my trust and take upon himself the ultimate privelage of responsibility and return the gift in kind.

I hope and pray everyone's journey will bear real fruit someday.

May these words help you in your own quests."

Hugs and Kissess
denuseri

[Skyybird]

hmmmm? Is a very romantic thought, though. *pictures sitting under the tree on Christmas morn waiting to be unwrapped and played with*

Hmmmmm what fun would that be?

[cookiecat]

i am definitely in the minority.

i get the reciprocal trust, the nurturing aspects. and i understand the idea of completion. that my submissive self is the missing piece of his dominant self.

but it's all so hallmark greeting card sounding. like i have this thing - my submission - all wrapped up so pretty that i hand to him.

it's a work in process. it's fluid. sometimes i fail him and sometimes his actions aren't what i expect. but we work together to come out stronger.

i don't see my submission as a gift. maybe i'm getting hung up on semantics. i see my submission as a part of me. and i give him my whole self.

[RickBulow74]

All good comments indeed, and I enjoy the thought out discussion. Here is the post that started it on the other board (name withheld)

So often we hear the phrase "submission is not taken, it is a special gift". Is it really?

I say it's not simply a gift. I say submission is something we have or are. I think all of us have some kind of submission to us. Perhaps not very strong always, but we all have it. Just like we are all a bit Domme.

Anyway... back to the gift. or lack there of.

I say that BDSM is a relationship, not simply a gift and taking of the gift. You meet someone, the relationship grows, trust builds, and the submission isn't really gifted. That's simply a simplistic term we use to describe an incredible combination of giving and simply taking.

I think sometimes a submissive has no control at all over that submission. It is simply taken. And for others they call it giving their submission when it's just an act. Never really letting go and giving it up. Or perhaps they do eventually give it up, but once again, I think it is taken more then gifted.

Perhaps it might make more sense to say the opportunity to have thier submission is the gift. The moment they truly... completely... submit... That is more of something that is simply taken.

Just a thought.

XXXXX

There were many replies, and then I chimed in with this after giving it some serious thought.

As I had read this, I find it intriguing as I had always read that submission is a gift as well. It is the sub's to give to a special Dom. The only matter is if he or she will accept the sub's gift and what he or she does with it. Will said gift be used to teach and help the sub grow or will it be used to destroy and turn the sub away? I might be new to the lifestyle, and as such not make any sense with my post, but from what I had seen and heard quite a few subs had left certain Doms because the subs needed something more and said Dom was not able to fulfill the sub's wishes.

Again, just a thought and an opinion. I am always up for an INTELLEGENT discussion about it with no bashing or condemning.

I know that all have their own opinions, and I would like to hear from many others. This poll will remain open as I like to see others and also if those who voted wants to change their votes they can.

[Diablo]

i am definitely in the minority.

i get the reciprocal trust, the nurturing aspects. and i understand the idea of completion. that my submissive self is the missing piece of his dominant self.

but it's all so hallmark greeting card sounding. like i have this thing - my submission - all wrapped up so pretty that i hand to him.

it's a work in process. it's fluid. sometimes i fail him and sometimes his actions aren't what i expect. but we work together to come out stronger.

i don't see my submission as a gift. maybe i'm getting hung up on semantics. i see my submission as a part of me. and i give him my whole self.

Indeed you are getting caught in semantics.

How is it only a part of you?

It is who you are, just as your intelligence or empathy or any other characteristic is who you are.

So giving your submission is as much about giving that aspect as it is giving yourself. It would not be a gift if the dom just deserved it, that would be a right. But we must get to know each other before entering into a Dom sub relationship and the gift is a two way street.

We give each other exactly what the other seeks. The gift of submission for the gift of domination, so a trade. But it is not that simple. The sub gives up certain or complete control and for that, I at least view it as one of the greatest most selfless gifts.

One I would never be able to do myself. So I thank My kitten for her gift to me.

[twistedspet]

i view it as more of an...arrangement. i allow Her to Own me. She allows me to submit to Her. Wwe both meet the needs of the other.

In there are feelings grow.

[HelenaKitten]

It is a gift, unless you are actually forcing someone that would not want to be your submissive to be submissive to you.

I agree with Diablo mostly because it's true.

[irishman112145]

For someone to submit to you with all of there heart and sole there is none better. One given with no restraints is the only true submission.:

[bambina]

I vote no simply because the gift giver (subs) are the ones who get the reward. The affect it has on the Dom is just another result. Submissives aren't submissive for the sake of somebody else. They are submissive because of the the perks that come with submission. because I guarantee that if a submissive didn't get any joy out of being a sub then she ouldn't be one, even if he loved one wished it so. It's sort of like a guy buying a flat screen TV 'for the family' when we all know who it's really for.

[Pearlgem]

I vote no simply because the gift giver (subs) are the ones who get the reward. The affect it has on the Dom is just another result. Submissives aren't submissive for the sake of somebody else. They are submissive because of the the perks that come with submission. because I guarantee that if a submissive didn't get any joy out of being a sub then she ouldn't be one, even if he loved one wished it so. It's sort of like a guy buying a flat screen TV 'for the family' when we all know who it's really for.

I hope both subs and Doms get joy from being what they are and I assume they both do it because it's really what they want to do.

But you're missing the point of the dynamics involved if you think that the sub gets only selfish gratification for submissive behaviour and the Dom gets 'just another result.' I personally think it would be pointless being so superficially involved with someone like that. I prize my submission and my relationship with my Dom much more highly than that. I need to give him my submission and he needs to take it but it's by no means always easy. He allows me to give him that which he prizes above all else. That last bit of giving, pleasing, willing and total submission to his desires - that's the gift he allows me to give him because he is who he is and I am who I am. It's almost a mystical union.

Otherwise, why not just masturbate?

[sinderella]

Master doesn't rip your submission from you, He accepts it when you give it freely, so submission is a gift because it is not given easily to just anyone...it is a long journey and not a romantic ideal, just reality, just as his dominance and guidance are gifts that He gives to you.

[cadela]

I voted no. Submission for me is a need, not a gift, and it is this need that a Dominant picks up and fulfills for His own need to own and control another being. A gift is something that is given - a need is a far deeper desire.

[thenatural]

Submission to me is and act of will power, my will. When I surrender to my master I invoke my will to do the will of another, his. What he does with that power is in his discretion. I have been and will always be very choosy of who I hand my power too. There is a light and dark side to everything, in the dark a Dom could beat me, starve me, etc. and turn me into something that would obey his command, but that is not my submission.

[Orpheus]

I think submission is a gift as much as dominance is. Both are (hopefully) willingly given to the other so that both people involved can feel wonderful.

[Carpe Coma]

The "submission is a gift" is one of the few statements that really sticks in my craw. I used to sort of agree with it, in that submission is something that is given, however my take on the subject has shifted away from there over time.

Part of the problem is the use of the word "gift". "Gift" carries implications that it is something awarded or a present. This leads to submissives demanding that a dominant "earn" their submission, or some such nonsense (doing this will put you on the expressway to my bad side). The only way I can somewhat agree with that statement is if "gift" is defined only as "something that is given".

The other part of the problem is the black and white phrasing. It creates a dichotomy of either all submission being given or no instance of submission is given. This simply isn't the case. It is nearly impossible to actually 'force' anyone to do anything, as anything under conscious control requires the person to make a choice. However, not all instances of submission are accompanied by the perception of choice. If someone doesn't perceive that they had a choice, did they really have one? In fact, there is a significant subset of submissive desires which is characterized by the submissive feeling that he/she does not have a choice. I would be hard pressed to find a solid argument that submission was given in those cases.

So submission can be given, it can be taken, but it is not a 'gift' as the word is commonly used.

[steelish]

IMHO I absolutely think submission is a gift, just as I think domination is a gift.

I've heard it said that submission is not a gift that we give to our Masters, like some people try to tell us, because a gift can be taken back when it is no longer wanted.

Well, that very statement supports my argument that submission is a gift. Submission can be taken away. A submissive is capable of breaking things off with his or her dominant and/or taking away the gift of submission.

[Matin]

i think it is a gift...

i have this bone deep need to be the nurturer, the guide, the protector, and the master of my tiny little fiefdom.

some how i meet this woman who has the strength to give me HERSELF, and by doing so fulfill both of us.

it feels like christmas morning to me, but back when i was tiny and there was still wonder in the world. like that.

[FrozenGrapes]

I agree. It is a gift. But not just one-way. I see my relationship with a Master as an exchange. I relinquish my control to him.. submit. He accepts that and offers his control of me. We exchange.

I relinquish control...he accepts it. I give him my trust and respect... he respects and trusts me. He is pleased with my submission... I am pleased with his control. Each one in the relationship must offer equally, an exchange.

My reponsibility in this is to obey. To continually grow in my desire to give him more and more control over me. His responsibility is to keep that control and hold it responsibly.

It is not just my Master "doing" things to me, or "taking" things from me. He cannot lead where I will not follow. It's like a complicated and beautiful dance. Both partners must perform their part to make it happen. But Master leads.

WOW yeah i totally agree with Sadiej! very very well put.. I don't think i can expand on that anymore. Beautifully put!