Religion or Atheism? An open forum.

[Thorne]

But starting to dictate how others should dress is impacting on their democratic rights. Exceptions are special jobs, where you have to dress neutral and where your face must be seen.

I agree with you to a point, but where does one draw the line between those who truly want to dress a certain way and those who are forced to by their religious leaders? Especially in Islam, but in other religions as well, women especially are required to dress to satisfy some arbitrary religious tenet, and trying to go against those tenets can get women seriously injured, even killed. Generally by their own husbands, or even sons!

I think her primary point, as is mine, is that any religion which FORCES its followers to remain true to the faith under penalty of death is nothing more than a cult. Banning of Sharia law in England, for example, would give those who want to leave the faith the opportunity to do so, with less fear of retaliation. It's important that all religious organizations, and those who run them (priests, imams, rabbis, etc.) should be held accountable to the secular law first, and then to their religious laws where applicable. Allowing them to escape from secular punishment because of religious beliefs is stupid and dangerous.

I also agree with her statement that religious organizations should be treated like any other business and be subject to standard tax laws of all countries. Allow them to take deductions for any charitable work they perform or donate to, but they don't deserve to be treated any differently than any other business.

[thir]

I agree with you to a point, but where does one draw the line between those who truly want to dress a certain way and those who are forced to by their religious leaders?

I wish I knew. But I imagine that if a society becomes more equal (women can earn their own money) and less religious, the pressure on people from their religious backgruond will become less. Maybe that is the only way for that problem.

Especially in Islam, but in other religions as well, women especially are required to dress to satisfy some arbitrary religious tenet, and trying to go against those tenets can get women seriously injured, even killed. Generally by their own husbands, or even sons!

That is in fundamentalistic societies, and they are rebelling - thank all the gods large and small whether here or not and good for them! I salute their courage.

I think her primary point, as is mine, is that any religion which FORCES its followers to remain true to the faith under penalty of death is nothing more than a cult.

Whatever expression, it has no place in a democracatic society.

Banning of Sharia law in England, for example, would give those who want to leave the faith the opportunity to do so, with less fear of retaliation.

I don't understand. What Sharia law? Surely it is the secular law here?

It's important that all religious organizations, and those who run them (priests, imams, rabbis, etc.) should be held accountable to the secular law first, and then to their religious laws where applicable.

You lost me again. All are accountable to the laws, (theoretically anyway) right? As for religious laws, that would be a matter between the members of those congregations. But if they harass or threathen their members they answer to the secular law. At least here, where threats are not considered fredoom of speech.

Allowing them to escape from secular punishment because of religious beliefs is stupid and dangerous.

Who are doing that? Are you thinking of a specific case?

[quote
I also agree with her statement that religious organizations should be treated like any other business and be subject to standard tax laws of all countries.
[/quote]

Well, yes, obviously, if they have income.

Allow them to take deductions for any charitable work they perform or donate to, but they don't deserve to be treated any differently than any other business.

True. The medieval church was tax-free, and it was a terrible rival to other buisnesses.

[Thorne]

I don't understand. What Sharia law? Surely it is the secular law here?

You lost me again. All are accountable to the laws, (theoretically anyway) right? As for religious laws, that would be a matter between the members of those congregations. But if they harass or threathen their members they answer to the secular law. At least here, where threats are not considered fredoom of speech.

Apparently the Muslim community in England is running a campaign to make Sharia law the primary law for Muslims in England. They would be held accountable only to the Sharia court, and not the British court. Basically, two separate, and unequal, legal systems. I know there is opposition, but I believe there is some support for making Muslims subject to BOTH sets of laws. This would allow the Sharia courts to prevent Muslims from leaving the faith, for example.

True. The medieval church was tax-free, and it was a terrible rival to other buisnesses.

In the US, at least, all religious organizations are tax-free. Even those businesses and properties they own which are not strictly connected to religious activity are still exempt from taxation.

[thir]

Apparently the Muslim community in England is running a campaign to make Sharia law the primary law for Muslims in England. They would be held accountable only to the Sharia court, and not the British court. Basically, two separate, and unequal, legal systems. I know there is opposition, but I believe there is some support for making Muslims subject to BOTH sets of laws. This would allow the Sharia courts to prevent Muslims from leaving the faith, for example.

I haven't heard about this discussion for a long time, I think it has died, or at least died down.

I do not see who you can prevent anyone from leaving a faith?

In the US, at least, all religious organizations are tax-free. Even those businesses and properties they own which are not strictly connected to religious activity are still exempt from taxation.

Ok. I was not familiar with the problem because in DK churches are upheld by the state (while being largely ignored by the people who pay for them.)
I actually have no idea how it is here in UK.

[Thorne]

I do not see (how) you can prevent anyone from leaving a faith?

It's my understanding that leaving Islam is punishable by death. It's only used by the more radical Islamic sects, but I believe it's technically a part of Islamic law.