If you knew they didnt want to do it

[Crimson{kacey}]

Without some limits it just becomes an abusive or manipulative relationship, does it not?

[Ozme52]

Without some limits it just becomes an abusive or manipulative relationship, does it not?

That's a totally different question.

I can think of a number or scenarios where limits are irrelevent yet abuse (or even manipulation) aren't present either.

I just don't think one should enter relationships without the same types of conversations one has about limits.

Discussing limits can be seen as fast-track "getting to know you" conversations. "Slaves" who go into limit-less relationships with masters they've only just met are the ones who find themselves most often abused or manipulated... because they were seduced by the idea of being a slave.