Waterboarding Hyprocrisy

[TwistedTails]

Interesting bit of revisionist history there. But what the hey, any opportunity to do some good ol U.S. bashing right? Was there nothing recent you could distort? This is neither News or a World event unless of course your time machine is finally working. Would you mind citing a source or two? I'm interested in how you know what someone was thinking in 1903?

I support freedom of speech, so feel free to continue U.S. bashing. Just kindly do it in German, Chinese, or Russian on a Party approved message board.

Oh.. And try throwing in a fact or two. You know, Just for the fun of it.

[SadisticNature]

One of the great successes of conservatism is the ability to completely distort history but since you asked for sources here goes:

1) The Letters of Theodore Roosevelt, 8 Vols (Cambridge, MA, Harvard University Press) 1951-1954 V254

2) "United States Indian Policy and the Debate over Philippne Annexation: Implications for the Origins of American Imperialism" The Journal of American History 66, no 4 (March 1980) 810-831

3) Eric T. L. Love, Race over Empire: Racism and U.S. Imperialism 1865-1900 (Chapel HIll: University of North Carolina Press, 2004

4) TR, The Winning of the west 4:200

5) Matthew Frye Jacobson, Barbarian Virtues: The United States Encounters Foreign Peoples at Home and Abroad. 1876-1917 (New York: Hill & Wang, 2000).

6) Benevolent Assimilation: The American Conquest of the Phillipines 1899-1903. (New Havety, CT: Yale University Press, 1982).

7) James Blount, American Occupation of the Phillipines 1898-1912 (New York: Knickerbocker Press, 1913).

Along with several others.

As for knowing what people think. There are surviving records in the forms of: (i) Documented Conversations (ii) Collected Letters (iii) Policy Decisions and Documented Statements in support (for example to the senate or congress).

And what sources/evidence is your opinion that this is revisionist history based on? The fact that it doesn't jive with your idea of what America stands for?

[DuncanONeil]

Again this is old news! Kind of like saying that African Americans deserve something special, or reparations because of slavery.
No one alive in the US today has any direct contact with being a slave owner.

One of the great successes of conservatism is the ability to completely distort history but since you asked for sources here goes:

1) The Letters of Theodore Roosevelt, 8 Vols (Cambridge, MA, Harvard University Press) 1951-1954 V254

2) "United States Indian Policy and the Debate over Philippne Annexation: Implications for the Origins of American Imperialism" The Journal of American History 66, no 4 (March 1980) 810-831

3) Eric T. L. Love, Race over Empire: Racism and U.S. Imperialism 1865-1900 (Chapel HIll: University of North Carolina Press, 2004

4) TR, The Winning of the west 4:200

5) Matthew Frye Jacobson, Barbarian Virtues: The United States Encounters Foreign Peoples at Home and Abroad. 1876-1917 (New York: Hill & Wang, 2000).

6) Benevolent Assimilation: The American Conquest of the Phillipines 1899-1903. (New Havety, CT: Yale University Press, 1982).

7) James Blount, American Occupation of the Phillipines 1898-1912 (New York: Knickerbocker Press, 1913).

Along with several others.

As for knowing what people think. There are surviving records in the forms of: (i) Documented Conversations (ii) Collected Letters (iii) Policy Decisions and Documented Statements in support (for example to the senate or congress).

And what sources/evidence is your opinion that this is revisionist history based on? The fact that it doesn't jive with your idea of what America stands for?

[Saheli]

Interesting bit of revisionist history there. But what the hey, any opportunity to do some good ol U.S. bashing right? Was there nothing recent you could distort? This is neither News or a World event unless of course your time machine is finally working. Would you mind citing a source or two? I'm interested in how you know what someone was thinking in 1903?

I support freedom of speech, so feel free to continue U.S. bashing. Just kindly do it in German, Chinese, or Russian on a Party approved message board.

Oh.. And try throwing in a fact or two. You know, Just for the fun of it.

Ok...I basically have zero knowledge of waterboarding in the first place. But this is obviously an explosive topic. So you are responding in a very emotional way, but I am not really sure I know what your views are on waterboarding as much as your views on SadisticNature's views on waterboarding. I am very interested in hearing (or reading as the case may be) your opinions.

[TwistedTails]

Ok...I basically have zero knowledge of waterboarding in the first place. But this is obviously an explosive topic. So you are responding in a very emotional way, but I am not really sure I know what your views are on waterboarding as much as your views on SadisticNature's views on waterboarding. I am very interested in hearing (or reading as the case may be) your opinions.

Actually we have not come to the point of dicussing waterboarding yet. We are still working
on narrowing the sweeping comments made in his first two posts into something that can be
discussed without open warfare

My personal opinions on waterboarding are simple. Waterboarding is a form of torture. Under
the 3rd and 4th Geneva conventions it became illegal for the 194 signing countries to practice
torture beginning in 1929. Prior to that time there were no restrictions on the use of torture
in military actions and such tortures were practiced by many, if not all, governments
as a matter of routine.

Cheers
Twisted

[DuncanONeil]

It is not a response to Sadistics view on waterboarding, other than the fact that he is choosing to use occurrences from the absolute beginning of the 20th century as proof of how the US is acting and deceiding issues today.

Ok...I basically have zero knowledge of waterboarding in the first place. But this is obviously an explosive topic. So you are responding in a very emotional way, but I am not really sure I know what your views are on waterboarding as much as your views on SadisticNature's views on waterboarding. I am very interested in hearing (or reading as the case may be) your opinions.

[SadisticNature]

Kindly support this. I said that there were parallels, and I've drawn some parallels I haven't stated it corresponds exactly to how the US is acting today.

It is not a response to Sadistics view on waterboarding, other than the fact that he is choosing to use occurrences from the absolute beginning of the 20th century as proof of how the US is acting and deceiding issues today.

[SadisticNature]

Interesting bit of revisionist history there. But what the hey, any opportunity to do some good ol U.S. bashing right? Was there nothing recent you could distort? This is neither News or a World event unless of course your time machine is finally working. Would you mind citing a source or two? I'm interested in how you know what someone was thinking in 1903?

I support freedom of speech, so feel free to continue U.S. bashing. Just kindly do it in German, Chinese, or Russian on a Party approved message board.

Oh.. And try throwing in a fact or two. You know, Just for the fun of it.

You accuse me of trying to change the topic.

Yet you have not mentioned a single thing relevant to the topic in this post. Instead you initiate a bunch of diversions, and when I respond to any of them you accuse me of going off topic. That's quite the double standard.

[TwistedTails]

You accuse me of trying to change the topic.

Yet you have not mentioned a single thing relevant to the topic in this post. Instead you initiate a bunch of diversions, and when I respond to any of them you accuse me of going off topic. That's quite the double standard.

*looks back up the forum* Hmm, I don't even have to say how wrong that is. Yes I have. You just don't want to see it.

[TwistedTails]

So what did you want to talk about? You are probably not that interested in Philippine history or you would have called me out about this

after Bonifacios execution by the Spanish for treason?

When he was actually executed by Aguinaldo, or rather the First Republic. Oops, My mistake.