Topping from the Bottom?

[leah06]

There are a couple of recent threads about how to say no during a scene. This is not a big problem for me. Sometimes, though, I wish I could express a preference or ask to do something in a different way, and it's hard to figure out how to do it without seeming to top from the bottom. I've refused to do something at times rather than trying to modify it, which brings up another famous bdsm phrase - cutting off your nose to spite your face. Ooh, sexy. I wish some of the Dom/mes here had some advice about how to ask to do something differently, or less or whatever, without seeming like you're trying to control the scene. I mean, I guess in a certain way you are, but if it's the difference between doing something or not even trying it, maybe it would be nice to have a way to express that.

[BelovedPet]

There are a couple of recent threads about how to say no during a scene. This is not a big problem for me. Sometimes, though, I wish I could express a preference or ask to do something in a different way, and it's hard to figure out how to do it without seeming to top from the bottom. I've refused to do something at times rather than trying to modify it, which brings up another famous bdsm phrase - cutting off your nose to spite your face. Ooh, sexy. I wish some of the Dom/mes here had some advice about how to ask to do something differently, or less or whatever, without seeming like you're trying to control the scene. I mean, I guess in a certain way you are, but if it's the difference between doing something or not even trying it, maybe it would be nice to have a way to express that.

So what is the difference then? Not expressing a preference? If you express a modification, is this topping (from the bottom?)?

b

[Lisais mine]

isn't it funny how these threads all came up at once? the thread "Male submissives " is about the same thing I think. I think that it is wonderfull and correct to ask your dom for certain things, and to set limits and boundaries, but to expect the Dom/me to gratify you the way you want when you want- well, it is called Domination for a reason. and take it from me- Two doms, no matter how much they try or want to, can't have that much fun.it's a long story- I'll try to write a blog- but my exwife and I are both dom.

So it's real. how would you guys deal with it?

I see it as an excuse to break out the whip....

[leah06]

isn't it funny how these threads all came up at once? the thread "Male submissives " is about the same thing I think. I think that it is wonderfull and correct to ask your dom for certain things, and to set limits and boundaries, but to expect the Dom/me to gratify you the way you want when you want- well, it is called Domination for a reason. and take it from me- Two doms, no matter how much they try or want to, can't have that much fun.it's a long story- I'll try to write a blog- but my exwife and I are both dom.

So it's real. how would you guys deal with it?

I see it as an excuse to break out the whip....

I don't think this is entirely fair. Yes, if you expect the Dom/me to gratify you the way you want when you want, then you are topping from the bottom, and BTW, since you know this and feel so strongly about it, I wonder why you started this thread as a question? But there are times, say pushing limits, when it's perfectly reasonable for the sub to just say no, but it might be more enjoyable for everyone if s/he gave it a shot. And at those times, s/he might have some concerns that the DOM/ME CAN'T READ HIR MIND ABOUT! Maybe it makes the difference between a good scene and bad one, or a good scene or no scene. Maybe the sub would like to modify things a bit, in order to be able to participate. And maybe the Dom/me would prefer to know that rather than have the sub exercise hir right of refusal.

So, I repeat my question to Dom/mes that fall into this category. Dom/mes who prefer a miserable sub or one who won't try new stuff, move on. The rest of you, though, could you please tell me how you allow your sub to help you shift things during a scene? Obviously, it's better if you've discussed things beforehand but that doesn't always work out for a variety of reasons.

[Lisais mine]

I don't think this is entirely fair. Yes, if you expect the Dom/me to gratify you the way you want when you want, then you are topping from the bottom, and BTW, since you know this and feel so strongly about it, I wonder why you started this thread as a question? But there are times, say pushing limits, when it's perfectly reasonable for the sub to just say no, but it might be more enjoyable for everyone if s/he gave it a shot. And at those times, s/he might have some concerns that the DOM/ME CAN'T READ HIR MIND ABOUT! Maybe it makes the difference between a good scene and bad one, or a good scene or no scene. Maybe the sub would like to modify things a bit, in order to be able to participate. And maybe the Dom/me would prefer to know that rather than have the sub exercise hir right of refusal.

So, I repeat my question to Dom/mes that fall into this category. Dom/mes who prefer a miserable sub or one who won't try new stuff, move on. The rest of you, though, could you please tell me how you allow your sub to help you shift things during a scene? Obviously, it's better if you've discussed things beforehand but that doesn't always work out for a variety of reasons.

well, I started the thread the way i did because I wasn't sure how I felt. and I dont think I feel too strongly. the whip thing, well that was a joke, kinda. maybe if I answer your question and see if that gives you a better idea of how I feel.
first, I have done the checklist thing with her, and I keep that list. I continually talk to her about things. I try to get into her head all the time. I have a good memory and take notes onto her list all the time. we discuss my fantasies and hers, and become fluent with each other's likes and dislikes.
now knowing her limits this way, I try to keep to a safe level. I ask her about pain levels. she knows that she should use her safe word. I reinforce that constantly. If I started to do something that was threatening to her, I would expect her to speak up. if it just wasn't hot enough for her, well, I think she would just have to trust that it would get better. then after the "session" she could talk to me. that hasn't come up though

I guess the difference to me is that a Dom should devote him/her self to their sub, trying to make the best experience for the sub. the sub needs to develoop the trust to let the dom be the dom.

[Arria]

if you expect the Dom/me to gratify you the way you want when you want, then you are topping from the bottom,

Very well put, rachel, I see it the same way.

I had no idea there were different perceptions of "topping from the bottom".

Frankly, I am horrified that any sub should consider it out of place to voice feelings/likes/dislikes of any sort with her dom.
Equally crazy in my eyes is the idea that a sub should not speak up if she is afraid of, or terribly uncomfortable, with anything.
I also agree to the statement that doms are not able to read minds (even though some are so good in judging their sub´s reactions that they manage to get rather close to a mind-reading effect).

So I will just describe what I see as topping from the bottom, and how I go about it.
I usually do it when I am underplayed. To clarify: My dom does not feel like playing when he is stressed. I am the complete opposite. Far from providing only some superficial sexual gratification, a scene reduces my stress levels and frees my mind of things that bother me. If I am not played with for too long a period of time, I become moody, everything is getting on my nerves, I get extremely short-tempered, and this can go on to a level that makes it hard even for myself to "be in my skin".

Now, as we all know, hard times usually affect a couple equally (at least, if you are together in r/l). It happens that I go unplayed with longer than is comfortable or durable for me. It is in such situations that I try and get my dom play with me.
And here is where rachel´s statement kicks in. My dom and I have been together close to 11 years now. This means he knows me very well, he knows what I like best, he knows what I hate, and he knows what will get the desired effect out of me.
My favourite toy is the single tail. Now if I either tease him or simply say that I am underplayed and feel absolutely horrible, he could simply take my favourite toy and beat the crap out of me.
While I would probably enjoy this for the moment, it would also create a loss of respect on my side, because he allowed me to manipulate him into simply doing what I want at that moment.
Hence, what he does in such situations, is give me something. Something that - if he is stressed - does not take much of an effort for him, but serves the purpose. Sometimes it is something that he likes very much, while I don´t. Much of it goes into the humiliation zone (like a rim job). Some of it is simply plain painful (like dragging me around on my nipples while scolding me for being a nuisance).

While these things might not be what I consider my preferrable actions, they always work out in setting my mind back into a relaxed state, and give me the feeling I am taken care of/being cared about.
It might sound sick, but I have to admit the more un-welcome, painful, and humiliating the action in question feels to me during the scene, the more calm and relaxed I am when it is over.

If, however, I feel that he is in no state to give his heart to a scene, but I need some stress reduction nevertheless, I simply ask for a few hard face slaps, which he does not mind to give, and which do the job perfectly.

As for general talk about likes and dislikes: We usually cover those well in advance of any scene, so they don´t become a problem in the middle of a scene.
It has not happened yet that I was put through an experience that was really too much for me.
If, however, a certain thing happened during a scene that seems overpowering/too hard/too uncomfortable for me, I bring that up during the "after-talk". Though none of those were ever physical/had to do with pain - they usually originate in actions that go into my humiliation zone.

I hope this makes some sense.

[damyanti]

Ok, so I just had to Google "rim job".... (both ways)

A "rim job" is a slang term for analingus. That means oral stimulation of the anus.

A lot of people of all sexual orientations and genders enjoy analingus, but it is a form of oral sex that is very risky in terms of disease transmission. A lot of infections are contracted fecal-orally, like Hepatitis A, shigellosis (particularly caused by Shigella flexneri), pathogenic E. coli, salmonellosis ... the list goes on and on. Microscopic traces of feces on the anus can get into the mouth of the partner giving analingus. If those feces harbor anything particularly pathogenic, that can mean sickness (with diarrhea, bloody diarrhea, vomiting and fevers as major symptoms).

But like I said, a lot of people enjoy analingus. After all, the anus and perineum both have a lot of highly-sensitive nerve endings, and touch stimulation can be sexually pleasurable. Analingus can be done safely if the anus is covered with a dental dam or sheet of plastic cling film. A dental dam is a sheer square sheet of latex. It can be stretched over the anus to keep fecal germs away from the partner performing the analingus. The tongue should only come in contact with the dam or cling film.


No, thank you. LOL
Though you totally rock Arria, .

[denuseri]

Ok, so I just had to Google "rim job".... (both ways)

A "rim job" is a slang term for analingus. That means oral stimulation of the anus.

A lot of people of all sexual orientations and genders enjoy analingus, but it is a form of oral sex that is very risky in terms of disease transmission. A lot of infections are contracted fecal-orally, like Hepatitis A, shigellosis (particularly caused by Shigella flexneri), pathogenic E. coli, salmonellosis ... the list goes on and on. Microscopic traces of feces on the anus can get into the mouth of the partner giving analingus. If those feces harbor anything particularly pathogenic, that can mean sickness (with diarrhea, bloody diarrhea, vomiting and fevers as major symptoms).

But like I said, a lot of people enjoy analingus. After all, the anus and perineum both have a lot of highly-sensitive nerve endings, and touch stimulation can be sexually pleasurable. Analingus can be done safely if the anus is covered with a dental dam or sheet of plastic cling film. A dental dam is a sheer square sheet of latex. It can be stretched over the anus to keep fecal germs away from the partner performing the analingus. The tongue should only come in contact with the dam or cling film.


No, thank you. LOL
Though you totally rock Arria, .

Actualy when practicing analingus and or ass to mouth with a regular partner in a monogamus relationship taking the proper precautions the risk of getting many of the above are allmost non-existant.

here is but one of many threads on this type of subject for those that are interested.

http://www.bdsmlibrary.com/forums/sh...ad.php?t=18694

Just to stay on topic:

Getting your dominant to preform it on you might be considered topping from the bottom by some. LOL.

[leo9]

There are a couple of recent threads about how to say no during a scene. This is not a big problem for me. Sometimes, though, I wish I could express a preference or ask to do something in a different way, and it's hard to figure out how to do it without seeming to top from the bottom.

Saying no is what the safeword "yellow" or "amber" is for. As in, "this isn't an emergency, but it's not working for me."

As for expressing a preference, my late slave-wife would have said things like "It'd be horrible if you twisted those clamps as well as pull them," or "I couldn't bear it if you used the cane instead of the flogger" - what we called "briar-patch suggestions," as in "don't throw me in the..."

[BryansGrrrl]

As for expressing a preference, my late slave-wife would have said things like "It'd be horrible if you twisted those clamps as well as pull them," or "I couldn't bear it if you used the cane instead of the flogger" - what we called "briar-patch suggestions," as in "don't throw me in the..."

I just LOVE Uncle Remus. And this is a great suggestion!

The hardest thing to teach my slaves is that keeping information from me - about their feelings, about their needs - is disobedience. A good slave tells hir Master the things he needs to know to get the best from hir.

This really is a difficult thing. I still have difficulty in denying Him something that I even suspect that He might want. If I am not interested in pursuing something... I sort of wait to see what He feels about it before voicing my own opinion. It is a very bad habit that I'm trying very hard to break myself of.

[leo9]

This really is a difficult thing. I still have difficulty in denying Him something that I even suspect that He might want. If I am not interested in pursuing something... I sort of wait to see what He feels about it before voicing my own opinion. It is a very bad habit that I'm trying very hard to break myself of.

Like I said, think of it as service. Being honest and open about your feelings - even the negative ones - is another way of making yourself available to your Master. You wouldn't hide your body from Him: don't hide your mind either.

Look at it this way: saying "This doesn't work for me" isn't telling Him not to do it. He might even take it as an encouragement to do it more, just to be cruel The important thing is to tell Him what's really going on.