BDSM And Feminism: Intertwined? How So?

[blythe spirit]

A lot of people here seem to have some misconceptions about what a feminist is. Being a radical or militant feminist does NOT mean wanting to get rid of men


Radical feminists believe that patriarchy (the male-dominated hierarchy that largely defines Western culture) is too entrenched to be changed by law alone, and work to change the culture itself, not just the government. A radical feminist might focus on balancing gender representation in the media, organizing anti-sexual assault campaigns on campuses, or encouraging women to accept their bodies as they are.

Female separatists are feminists who believe that it is destructive for women to have relationships with men, and that all women should be lesbians instead. This was mostly a 1960s/70s movement that hasn't really remained relevant, and it's rare to encounter one these days. As a woman who enjoys dating and sleeping with women, I'm really annoyed by female separatists, because the ones I've encountered online have this obnoxious tendency to co-opt lesbianism for their own purposes without actually being sexually attracted to women themselves. I suspect that a lot of them are really asexual, rather than gay, since the thought that some lesbians actually enjoy sex often seems to bother them.

Granted,feminism became fanatical and ugly in the 1960s; however, Gloria Steinem, who said "We don't just want to destroy capitalism, we want to tear down the whole f____ patriarchy" was considered a "militant feminist" not a "separatist." NOW was considered a "terrorist organization" that wanted to dissolve "traditional" family life completely, referring to it as a "comfortable concentration camp from which women needed to be liberated."

The problem, as I see it, is that all "feminists" good and bad were lumped into one category known as the "Women's Movement."

Being a feminist isnt about being the one thing, its about the right to be a woman and that we are valued for it.

Women, imho, always had value. Even when they were nothing more then chattel, albeit a very singular type of property. They had value because they alone could "give birth."

I would venture to say that more men "died" in history to protect that which was his, namely womenfolk, than those women who faught to be liberated from gentlemenfolk, who rose when a lady entered the room, who opened doors and relieved her from heavy labor and protected her reputation.

Even the lowliest of woman escaped first from the Titanic. I just wonder, if the boys being raised today would not push their way past these women to extricate themselves from the sinking ship...because women are now just as equal as they?

And when it's all taken into account, all we really have is the right to complain that we still don't have the equality that our foremothers intended.

[damyanti]

Women, imho, always had value. Even when they were nothing more then chattel, albeit a very singular type of property. They had value because they alone could "give birth."

I would venture to say that more men "died" in history to protect that which was his, namely womenfolk, than those women who faught to be liberated from gentlemenfolk, who rose when a lady entered the room, who opened doors and relieved her from heavy labor and protected her reputation.

Even the lowliest of woman escaped first from the Titanic. I just wonder, if the boys being raised today would not push their way past these women to extricate themselves from the sinking ship...because women are now just as equal as they.

Sorry, blythespirit, but having value and being valued are two very different things.

If it gives you pleasure to blame other women knock yourself out, but you have a very romanticized and very inaccurate view of history.

And your last paragraph...how does being good at my job and wanting freedom to make my own decisions, ends up equal asking to be pushed around and treated rudely? Boys are being raised to disrespect women because women are equal now? So they don't respect other men, their friends, fathers? And please look around...women are still far from being equal.



(This isnt directed at you! I just didn't feel like double posting)

It has been my experience that women who proclaim that they are not feminists are the ones who just want to stay home, go shopping, do nothing and have a "sponsor" who pays for it all and are too conceited to lift a finger. They want to be treated like a lady. In Europe we call them WAGs, and if thats a lady,...I prefer to buy my own handbags. To me a man is a person, not a wallet.

[blythe spirit]

If it gives you pleasure to blame other women knock yourself out, but you have a very romanticized and very inaccurate view of history.

Frankly, damyanti, I have not romanticized history, I was part of it. No, I wasn't on the Titantic. lol. And I'm not blaming other women. Perhaps you should reread my posts (all of them).

I do, however, think the "militants" and the "terrorists" have a great deal to do with the demise of chivalry. It was to a point where men would actually ask, "Is it okay for me to hold the door for you?" Poor guys had absolutely no clue what was and was not proper anymore. And I don't think their fear was brought about by other men out there.

Long before you, there were women out there holding pregtigious positions that they worked hard to get. It was their "choice" to do so. As to your last statement, I think you confirmed what some of us said, about being looked down upon by "radicals" whose belief is that any woman, who "chooses" to stay at home is nothing.

Thank you, denuseri, for pointing out the many (more than five) responsibilities that homemakers hold without renumeration. I, for one, chose career over marriage and had to do battle on a daily basis "breaking" into a man's world. It wasn't an easy task, but I learned early on that I caught more flies with honey. *winks* Later on in life, I did marry. Strangely, a man with very old-fashioned ethics.

As far as the way boys are being brought up, I would hope that women being equal doesn't mean that boys should treat them rudely; however, I have yet to see equality in the work place or in the home, but I have observed boys treating little girls disrespectfullly.

[thir]

I would venture to say that more men "died" in history to protect that which was his, namely womenfolk, than those women who faught to be liberated from gentlemenfolk, who rose when a lady entered the room, who opened doors and relieved her from heavy labor and protected her reputation.

Even the lowliest of woman escaped first from the Titanic. I just wonder, if the boys being raised today would not push their way past these women to extricate themselves from the sinking ship...because women are now just as equal as they?
.

Actually, the poor people on 3. class were locked in, women and children as well as men. Whether they were eventually let out I do not know, there were not enough lifeboats, and certainly the 1. class passenger women and children were let in first. Point: class differences were every bit as important as gender.

As for how wars are fought so that men can protect their property including women, it is quite widely held that wars are about money and power. The rest is just window dressing.