the story of Our Lady "the Virgin Mary" in the muslims holly book (quran)

[Thorne]

I dare you to ask who spent his life in the service of Islam
if you're looking for evidence ask the Scientists Religion

I have asked science for evidence. And science tells me there is no evidence, yet. Maybe there can be, though personally I doubt it. But in all the years that mankind has been worshiping gods, there has never been any evidence that those gods exist. Until there IS evidence, I can find no reason to believe that there are gods.

i think This is your job

No, it's more of a hobby.

I am not prepared to prove anything to those who came previously closed mind

My mind is not closed! If you can provide the evidence I am perfectly willing to look at it. And if it credible, and testable, then I would be willing to reconsider my position. All I ask for is the evidence.

And fight against the entire purpose of religion and not a discussion

Any discussion of religion, or politics, eventually seems to degrade into a fight. Probably because neither side is willing to give up their demands. The religious demand unquestioning faith. The scientist demands evidence and proof.

The contradiction existing between the Books
Does not come from God, but from humans

One big one I know of just off the top of my head! The Bible, and Christianity, recognizes Jesus as the Son of God. The Quran, and Islam, recognize him only as a prophet. A rather large contradiction, don't you think? Or are you saying that only Islam has it right?

All the prophets who were sent by God
Sent them to spread one message starting from Adam, but Seal of the Prophets Muhammad peace be upon him

As I scientist I can understand that you believe this, but how do you KNOW?

And God has sent a provisions Special to evry Nation

How do you KNOW?

Until came Muhammad peace be upon him The last prophet he was sent to all people
with perfect book for evryone & evryage

Ahh, I see. So you DO believe that your religion is the only true religion? And you say my mind is closed?

[leo9]

My word, I haven't seen a religious troll since the old newsgroup days, that takes me back. They used to be just Xians, but they still believe that telling you the Good News is bound to convert you.

[Thorne]

My word, I haven't seen a religious troll since the old newsgroup days, that takes me back. They used to be just Xians, but they still believe that telling you the Good News is bound to convert you.

Yeah, they think using quotes from a book I don't believe in, about a god I don't believe in, will change my mind. I've learned more from Heinlein, Asimov and Clarke than from Moses, Jesus or Mohammed.

But it can be fun when you can use their holy books against them. I'll need to familiarize myself more with the Quran, though, if I want to be more effective.

[denuseri]

It's not bad enough the thread has gotten totally derailed into yet another aethism bully pulpuit rant, thanks Thorne, (which is somehow ok cuase it was "fun" huh?)

...but we are resorting to name calling?



(I would love to know just who is being called a troll and what context your using the word Xian in leo? ) Cuase when I look through the rest of the thread the only troll like behavior I see seems to come from the side of the one claiming to believe in "not believing" in anything.


I see so long as the religion isnt pagan or aethism its fair game to use any amount of sophistry to attack it?

God forbid someone try to get together the Muslims and the Christians on any common ground, we cant have that now can we? Lets make sure we attack and belittle them every chance we get huh?

Is that aethisms way of paving a brighter future?

Making whatever divisions there are even deeper, trying to get people to focus on only the bad things, obfuscate, spin, and dogmatize everything.

You just cant stand to see people express their faith or seek common ground with others of different faiths?

Sounds to me like someone sure is saying its his way or the highway to me.

[Thorne]

It's not bad enough the thread has gotten totally derailed into yet another aethism bully pulpuit rant, thanks Thorne, (which is somehow ok cuase it was "fun" huh?)

Why is it OK for domaster to preach his beliefs, including quoting the Quran, but when I do the same it's ranting?

I see so long as the religion isnt pagan or aethism its fair game to use any amount of sophistry to attack it?

What sophistry?

God forbid someone try to get together the Muslims and the Christians on any common ground, we cant have that now can we? Lets make sure we attack and belittle them every chance we get huh?

I treat the Christians and Muslims equally! Isn't that common ground?

Is that aethisms way of paving a brighter future?

Yes. A world without religion. Looks pretty bright to me.

You just cant stand to see people express their faith or seek common ground with others of different faiths?

Express their faith, no problem. Proselytize? Fine, as long as I can respond in kind.

Sounds to me like someone sure is saying its his way or the highway to me.

Not saying that at all.

Domaster came in here and was espousing his beliefs. Great. I don't have a problem with that. But I have the same right to point out where I think his beliefs fail. Why do you have a problem with me doing that? Why is it all right for you to misrepresent my atheism ("one claiming to believe in "not believing" in anything"), but it's not okay for me to point out that what someone believes in is unlikely or unproven?

As for showing respect for religions, I can't think of even one good reason to do so. Why should I respect a religion whose leaders protect child molesters? Why should I respect a religion whose leaders treat rape victims as criminals? Why should I respect a religion whose believers think that a good time in heaven will be looking down on all those souls suffering in hell, and laughing at them? Go ahead! Give me a really good reason to respect religious beliefs.

And for the record, I didn't call anyone a troll, though I can understand why leo9 did. To be fair, though, domaster has not done the typical troll action of tossing a lot of BS into the arena and ducking out to watch the fur fly. He's defended his beliefs admirably. True, he's trying to convince me by using his holy book instead of reason, which is somewhat troll-like, but that doesn't make him a troll.

[denuseri]

Why is it OK for domaster to preach his beliefs, including quoting the Quran, but when I do the same it's ranting?

Oh you preached your own beliefs in abundance allready though havent you. All he did initially was try to point out that Christians and Muslims have some shared beliefs that could work to help make peace between them and then, as ussually, you tunred it into a "no your beielfs are wrong and your an idiot for having them rant".


What sophistry?

Points up to well over half of your posts in the thread where you associate all believers with rapists, murderers, child molesters, believers in fairy tales, flying purple unicons and what not becuase they must be since they are not aethiests like you.

I treat the Christians and Muslims equally! Isn't that common ground?

In trying to belittle their faith when your own beliefs have no more or less wieght than theirs becuase the base premise of all is the same is the hieght of hipocracy.

Yes. A world without religion. Looks pretty bright to me.

And a world where everyone could be free to practice or not their religion or belief system or life philosophy, or lack therof in mutual respect and tolerance without being called an idiot becuase those beliefs differ wouldnt be brighter?




Express their faith, no problem. Proselytize? Fine, as long as I can respond in kind.

The proselytizing Ive seen so far has come ironically enough from the one claiming to not belive in anything, even when you so clearly do believe in what you believe in with as much zealotry and fundamentalism as the most ardhent of the "faithful". How silly is that, sounds like the pot calling the proverbial kettle black.


Not saying that at all.

Then why not let others believe in what they wish too without trying to attack them for their beliefs for a change?

You make it impossible to have a reasoned discussion of theocracies when over and over you keep trying to draw sophic analogies to attck all faiths other than aethism as being wrong continiusly through any thread that even mentions the word religion.

Domaster came in here and was espousing his beliefs. Great. I don't have a problem with that. But I have the same right to point out where I think his beliefs fail. Why do you have a problem with me doing that? Why is it all right for you to misrepresent my atheism ("one claiming to believe in "not believing" in anything"), but it's not okay for me to point out that what someone believes in is unlikely or unproven?

Oh is that what youve been doing, Im sorry love I couldnt get around how youve been misrepresenting not only your stated ideals and those of all others who dont share your "way of thinking" (which btw is the exact same as saying "your beliefs").

No I dont have a problem with you expressing your beliefs, just the sophistic manner in which you choose to cloak it as an attack against anything that differs from your own, which is the hieght of hipocracy imho, especially when it comes from someone claiming to expouse the values of science and reason over baseless asumption.

It would be nice to have a discussion about religion just once without all the anti-religion dogma getting in the way.

Instead of allways attacking why not listen to what the other person is saying about their own beliefs just once and take them at face value?

As for showing respect for religions, I can't think of even one good reason to do so. No apparently you dont and yet you ask for that same respect be shown to you...how ironic and hypocritical. Why should I respect a religion whose leaders protect child molesters? Why should I respect a religion whose leaders treat rape victims as criminals? Why should I respect a religion whose believers think that a good time in heaven will be looking down on all those souls suffering in hell, and laughing at them? Go ahead! Give me a really good reason to respect religious beliefs.

Just as many bad things have ben done in the name of aethism so I dont see any difference there.

Respect doesnt require you to convert or anything, just "tolerance".

The Founding Father's believed that all people should be mutually respected when it came to one's own beliefs, that why we got the whole seperation of church and state thing to begin with. Or to quote the wiccans, "and it harm not others, do as thou will."

And for the record, I didn't call anyone a troll, though I can understand why leo9 did. To be fair, though, domaster has not done the typical troll action (so how is it fair to call him a troll or troll like then?) of tossing a lot of BS into the arena and ducking out to watch the fur fly. He's defended his beliefs admirably. True, he's trying to convince me by using his holy book instead of reason, which is somewhat troll-like, but that doesn't make him a troll.

Troll-like? Really? And you seriously wonder why I call you out on this kind of stuff?

In any event I don't believe the topic of this thread is to discuss what aethism is or is not, nor to constantly refute what one believes about what someone's elses religion or philosophy as being false for whatever reason or insult it's adhereants intelligence.

People are going to believe what they wish anyways where as that is concerned.

"For the believer no proof is nessesary and for the unbeliever, no proof is possible anyways."

I dont believe the main message of Hinduism, Judism, Buddism, Christianity, Islam, Bahai or Wicca is one of anything other than to love one another and help each other, to live together in peace and harmony. Yes its true that in the past and even today their are people who do bad things in the name of their religion and I am all for getting people to stop doing such things, to be tollerent of one another beliefs.

Some like aethiests may feel like they don't need to have faith in an outside force to help them in that endeavor and thats perfectly fine. But they shouldn't be fundamentally insistant on that which they cannot prove eaither or going on some kind of sophist filled rampage to see all religion abolished and become exactly like the very thing they espouse to be against.

You say the aethism practiced by the Communists wasnt behind all the atrocities committed against people of all faiths, fine, I say religions/belief systems in general all apply equally where as that is conserned. Evil men, using dogma to their own ends period. You wish to punnish the weapon used as opposed to the one wielding it I see. In that case we should abolish science too since it certiantly comes up with all manner of evil things to use against each other too.


Since no one can prove themselves right on any of it, doesnt it make more sence to just let people believe what they wish and punnish what society considers by law to be actions instead of ideas?

Seriously, isnt it ok for people to think what they wish to think so long as they are not hurting others?

All I am asking is why can't we all stop nitpicking about the specifics as we move into the future?

Focus on common ground as opposed to making things worse by fostering divisions?

Or will you do as you did earlier in the thread and all the others like it, and ignore reason and logic when it doesnt support the dogma of religion bashing?

Well, will you? I would love to see you actually answer ALL of my proposals with reason and logic and not skip them over like you ussually do and only pick at things to spin them?

<< gets in a philosophical socratic pose.

Come on lets see what you really got, no more hiding behind side issues Thorne.

Eaither you want to really practice what you preach or your not interessted in logic, reason, and science so much as dogma and rehtoric that suits the purpose of attacking all religions for that sake alone.

Which is it I wonder?

[Thorne]

[QUOTE=denuseri;923817]Well, will you? I would love to see you actually answer ALL of my proposals with reason and logic and not skip them over like you ussually do and only pick at things to spin them?
I'll give it a shot, then. And in all seriousness.

"For the believer no proof is nessesary and for the unbeliever, no proof is possible anyways."

Very right, for part 1. Very wrong for part 2. I've already stated that there are proofs of gods which could change my mind. I'm still waiting to see any of them.

I dont believe the main message of Hinduism, Judism, Buddism, Christianity, Islam, Bahai or Wicca is one of anything other than to love one another and help each other, to live together in peace and harmony. Yes its true that in the past and even today their are people who do bad things in the name of their religion and I am all for getting people to stop doing such things, to be tollerent of one another beliefs.

These may be the main messages of the religion, but it is NOT necessarily what is practiced by the hierarchies of those faiths. How many Christian religion, are willing to show tolerance for Gays, for example? Or Islam, or Judaism. I'm not familiar with the others you name, which is perhaps a failing of mine, but those religions are not trying to ram their beliefs down my throat through changing the laws.

Some like aethiests may feel like they don't need to have faith in an outside force to help them in that endeavor and thats perfectly fine. But they shouldn't be fundamentally insistant on that which they cannot prove eaither or going on some kind of sophist filled rampage to see all religion abolished and become exactly like the very thing they espouse to be against.

And once more I state that, as an atheist, I am not the one making the claim that gods exist. I am simply asking for proof, and in the absence of that proof I do not see any point in believing. And, while I think the world would be better off without religion, I am not trying to destroy religion, or faith. I am simply asking theists to actually think about what they believe in, and learn how those beliefs have changed over the years. See, for example, how their supposedly inerrant Bible was cobbled together from pieces of stories, which were based on even earlier stories. I do NOT say, "Do not believe!" I simply say, "Understand what you believe." Too many do not.

You say the aethism practiced by the Communists wasnt behind all the atrocities committed against people of all faiths, fine, I say religions/belief systems in general all apply equally where as that is conserned. Evil men, using dogma to their own ends period. You wish to punnish the weapon used as opposed to the one wielding it I see. In that case we should abolish science too since it certiantly comes up with all manner of evil things to use against each other too.

There is no atheism to "practice". Atheism is simply the lack of belief in gods. ANY gods. There's no dogma, no services, no sermons. And yes, I agree that most of the evils incurred by religions are performed by evil men (and women) who twist the true message to meet their own ends. But it is the fear of the common theists which allows them to do this. When the leaders' words are law, who will gainsay them? How many Roman Catholics have risen up in righteous anger to condemn the Churches lack of response to the pedophile scandals? Damned few, as far as I can tell! And why haven't they? Because their leaders have told them, "This is Church business. Just sit down, say your prayers, and keep putting money into those collection plates." The problems in Islam (as I see them, at least) are very similar. The people don't condemn their leaders for the atrocities they espouse, thereby giving tacit approval to them.

Since no one can prove themselves right on any of it, doesnt it make more sence to just let people believe what they wish and punnish what society considers by law to be actions instead of ideas?

Absolutely! But how can you do that when the churches, the religions, control the law? Where is the justice for a rape victim in Iran? Islam controls the law, and Islam hates women even more than Catholics do. Where is the justice for the children who die of simple, easily curable diseases because their parents decided that praying was better than medicine? By all means, believe what you wish, but when your beliefs impinge upon my life you've gone too far.

Seriously, isnt it ok for people to think what they wish to think so long as they are not hurting others?

Go here to see whether they are hurting others.

All I am asking is why can't we all stop nitpicking about the specifics as we move into the future?

If they were only nits we were picking I could agree. But there are people dying because of religious beliefs. Ask the wives and families of doctors and nurses who happen to work in abortion clinics if these are nits. Ask the gays being executed in Uganda if these are only minor differences or opinion. Whether these abominations are caused directly or indirectly by religious belief is irrelevant. Religion gives them their impetus, and in many cases protects the perpetrators.

Come on lets see what you really got, no more hiding behind side issues Thorne.

Well, that's what I've got. How did I do? And nothing I've said here is any different than what I've said in the past.

People can believe whatever they want. I've never said that this should change. What does need to change, though, is people allowing those who believe in the supernatural the same consideration as those who believe in facts and evidence. If someone stands before me, either literally or figuratively in an open forum, and claims that his god is the one true god, or that everyone should believe what he believes, I'm going to call him out on it. And when those beliefs are patently false, I'll say so. The man who claims the world is flat just because some holy book tells him so is no more deserving of respect than the man who believes that a crocodile can give birth to a duck. PROVE that the world is flat and I'll respect you.

[TantricSoul]

My friends and esteemed contributors to the forums,
So here we are, once again, the current subject isn’t even closely related to the thread title or what I believe the intention of the thread was . I agree with denu that this thread might have lead to a rather interesting conversation, yet instead has become the all too familiar cyclical and unchanging battle of words between faith and facts.
I also agree with Thorne that he has a right, like us all, to contribute his opinion or challenge others on their opinions. And having been on the opposing side of debates with him in the past, I know he has a “take no prisoners” approach.
So where to from here? Because I would like to see if we can make some space in these religious threads for some viewpoints and discussions other than the atheist/theist discussion. You both are heavy contributors here and I cut you both slack because of that fact, but cmon, thread after thread is ending up on the same topic.
I’m tempted to encourage you both to have it out, once and for all, in a single thread, in the hope that you can come to a place where you can respect each-others (and other contributors) viewpoints without feeling the need to turn every thread into this same discussion. Yet I am not confident that will work either. Denus’ faith is not likely to change Thornes’ mind, just as his facts won’t change her faith, so why? Why keep doing it over and over?
So I’ll ask you both nicely, please, if you must continue to rehash this, contain it to a thread or two, and leave some space for other topics and viewpoints.
Thank you,
Tantric

[denuseri]

Thank you for your wise moderation Tantric!

[Thorne]

Done.

[domaster]

Originally Posted by Thorne

but it can be fun when you can use their holy books against them. I'll need to familiarize myself more with the Quran, though, if I want to be more effective.

well im Always waiting for you to use my holy book against me
all what do u did untill now its Misrepresentation verses to make it look bad
but still u can Always try

[nerameshu]

Look, all I can say (as an Agnostic in his 20's) is that the only words in the Bible I believe to be "true to God" are the words spoken by Jesus Christ. The rest of the Bible? Well, before Jesus enters the scene, it was about sex and sacrificing lambs to get to Heaven. (Genesis, the first book, is God's Earth Creation To-Do list and the genealogy of the first tribe, descended from Adam and Eve.) After Jesus, the Bible is nothing more than musings of men on the word of God.

domaster, I have yet to read more than a few pages of the Qu'ran, and for that, I apologize. I cannot hold much of a first-hand conversation with you, because I'm not well versed in the Holy Book. (Although, I can speak a little Arabic, and I would love to here the Qu'ran read by a native speaker.) However, if I may suggest it, could you, perhaps, read the words spoken only by Mohammed, followed by the words spoken only by Jesus in the Bible, and see what you think? Again, if I may suggest it. I'm not trying to sway you to one side or the other.

Final notes: I wasn't raised in a religious house-hold. I see flaws in every system of belief, including, and especially, Atheism. However, I can, and will, respect all peoples' beliefs, as your beliefs are your right. But when talking about a religion, philosophy, or life-path, look not at the hateful people around you. Look to the message of that system's main human.

Also, being raised in the Bible Belt, I do not know many Christians who would love too many people at all. In fact, most of them hate me, through and through. But the few Muslims I have talked to are not only the most respectful people I know, but they have promised to go out of their way just to teach me about Islam, should I ask them to.

[Thorne]

Look, all I can say (as an Agnostic in his 20's) is that the only words in the Bible I believe to be "true to God" are the words spoken by Jesus Christ.

NONE of the Gospels are contemporary accounts of Jesus. ALL were written long after his death, and probably not by his disciples. There is enough contradiction between the four gospels to raise suspicions of all of them. There is certainly no historical evidence outside of the bible that Jesus (as depicted in the gospels) even existed. So how can his "words" be "true to God"?

I see flaws in every system of belief, including, and especially, Atheism.

This one drives me nuts! Atheism is NOT a system of belief. It is a LACK of belief in gods. It's that simple. A rather bad analogy (but the only one I can come up with at the moment) is that Atheism is a belief like NOT collecting stamps is a hobby. Do atheists have flaws? Of course they do! I know I do! But those flaws are NOT necessarily related to their lack of belief in supernatural beings.

[denuseri]

NONE of the Gospels are contemporary accounts of Jesus. ALL were written long after his death, and probably not by his disciples. There is enough contradiction between the four gospels to raise suspicions of all of them. There is certainly no historical evidence outside of the bible that Jesus (as depicted in the gospels) even existed. So how can his "words" be "true to God"?


This one drives me nuts! Atheism is NOT a system of belief. It is a LACK of belief in gods. It's that simple. A rather bad analogy (but the only one I can come up with at the moment) is that Atheism is a belief like NOT collecting stamps is a hobby. Do atheists have flaws? Of course they do! I know I do! But those flaws are NOT necessarily related to their lack of belief in supernatural beings.

LMAO

It's not the aethiests that are nessesarally so flawed Thorne, but the idea of aethism itself.

[denuseri]

According to Deen-ul-Islam Da'wah:

Islam is the religion of all prophets. Muslims believe that all the prophets were sent to their respective peoples from God (Allah). They all had the same mission and message - guiding people to the right path.

The three revealed, monotheistic religions, Islam, Christianity, and Judaism, go back to Abraham. The prophets of these religions were directly descended from him - Moses, Jesus and others from Isaac, but Muhammad from Isma'il. It was Prophet Abraham who had established the settlement which today is the city of Makkah, and with his son Isma'il built the Ka'bah, which Muslims all over the world face when they pray.

Christians and Jews hold a special place in Islam. They are called the People of the Book (Ahl al-Kitab), since the original Torah and Gospel were also divinely revealed and they shared in the prophetic tradition. Islamic states have nearly always shown their religious minorities tolerance and respect and those communities flourished under Islamic rule. God says:
"...Those who believe (in the message of Islam), and the Jews, the Sabaeans, and the Christians - all those who believe in Allah and the Last Day, and act righteously - no fear shall come upon them..." [5:69]
Setting up the Islamic state in Madinah, Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) further warned:
"Whoever oppresses any Dhimmi (non-Muslim citizen of the Islamic state), I shall be his prosecutor on the Day of Judgment."
In setting up the Islamic state, Prophet Muhammad made it inclusive of the Arabian Jews and Christians. Their persons, properties, churches and synagogues were protected, freedom of worship was guaranteed, and they controlled their own community affairs with their own civil and religious laws and courts. For most of the first century of the Islamic state, in fact, the majority of the citizens were Christians, enjoying peace and liberty such as they had not had even under Christian Rome or Byzantium.

The Jews, from the very beginning in Madinah, and later everywhere else, were lifted from the burden of being clients of individual Arab tribes to being citizens of the state, thus freeing them to focus on their Jewishness. When the Islamic state expanded outside Arabia the Jews of other lands were treated for the first time as liberated citizens. Judaism flourished as never before, with Jews even serving in Muslim armies and administrations while their culture bloomed in the arts, sciences, medicine and philosophy. This knowledge they transmitted to their brethren in the hostile climate of Christian Europe. Even Jewish mysticism originated under the influence of sufism and spread to northern Europe.
When Islam reached Persia the concept of People of the Book was extended to the Zoroastrians as well. Later, when the Muslims conquered parts of India and encountered Buddhists and Hindus, who appeared to worship idols, the question was referred to the ulema (council of scholars), who judged that even they could have the same protected status as the Jews and Christians, so long as they did not fight Islam and they paid the Jizyah tax.

[domaster]

i want share with u this beautiful thing
its kid from "iran" i think ... its not arabian
but the way how speak the arab Language & the way how he read the from the holly book Quran with the 3 "Novel correct"
i hope you watch that
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zHISO...yer_detailpage
& this the original reader from Egypt "abdou baset abdou elsamad"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=4mx4-kfJLCU

[Thorne]

i hope you watch that

To what point? I would be willing to bet that few here understood either of these, and, while the boy in the first link did have a remarkable voice, there was nothing there which I found to be interesting. What is your reason for posting these?

(see, denuseri? I'm trying to be polite!)

[domaster]

To what point? I would be willing to bet that few here understood either of these, and, while the boy in the first link did have a remarkable voice, there was nothing there which I found to be interesting. What is your reason for posting these?

(see, denuseri? I'm trying to be polite!)

well thank you but like franch people say's
"chaqu'un son gou" and "les gout ca s'peut pas"
look for it your self

[Thorne]

well thank you but like franch people say's
"chaqu'un son gou" and "les gout ca s'peut pas"
look for it your self

Yes, and in English we say, "To each his own." I have no problem with that, but it still doesn't explain your reason for posting those clips. Was there a message there which I have missed? (I did take a message away from the first video, but I'm sure that you wouldn't want to hear it.) Or are you simply proselytizing, trying to spread your religion to the infidels? (In which case, in my opinion, all the gloves come off. Or, to use another thing we say in English, "No more Mr. Nice Guy!")

[TantricSoul]

see, denuseri? I'm trying to be polite!)

And I do appreciate that Thorne!

[domaster]

thanx denuseri
that was very good ...
& one more thing
the islamic civilization was Built by arab - Jews - Christians & all who live in this civilization
& it was exampel of modern civilization Builted by Science & Peace & Law
well Generally...

[domaster]

1)
i was talking to "denuseri" about the islamic civilization & Prosperity Which appeared on thos times with involvement all religions & all Races
to Built this civilization in the govern of islamic civilization
2)
my friend ur the one who trying so hard & so badly Fighting & Mockeing all the posts that talk about religions
3)
(Or, to use another thing we say in English, "No more Mr. Nice Guy!")
is that Threat or something ???
4)
i dont Waste my time with someone like you Because u believe on god but you Fighte it & you Denying that god exist
why ... ???? only god know
your prolme is not with the believer its between u & god
Solve the problem with your self & stop Attacking the others people

[Thorne]

1)
i was talking to "denuseri" about the islamic civilization & Prosperity Which appeared on thos times with involvement all religions & all Races
to Built this civilization in the govern of islamic civilization

So those two clips were representative of Islamic Civilization? That's fine, that's all I asked. I had no clue to what they were supposed to represent. (However, I think you will find that the high achievements of Islamic civilization had more to do with science than with religion.)

3)
(Or, to use another thing we say in English, "No more Mr. Nice Guy!")
is that Threat or something ???

No threat intended, just a statement that proselytizing opens the gates for arguments against what you preach, that's all.

4)
i dont Waste my time with someone like you Because u believe on god but you Fighte it & you Denying that god exist
why ... ???? only god know

I do NOT deny that God exists, only that there is no evidence to show that he does. And even if there were evidence of gods, there is no evidence that YOUR god (or anyone elses god) is the one TRUE god.

your prolme is not with the believer its between u & god
Solve the problem with your self & stop Attacking the others people

Nope, there's no problem between me and any god. The problem exists solely between the believers and the non-believers.

I have stated repeatedly that if there were evidence of gods, any gods, good solid scientific evidence, then I would reverse my position and accept the existence of those gods. So let me ask you, what would convince you that your beliefs are wrong, and that Allah does NOT exist?

[domaster]

btw ur so Wrong about that and in English we say, "To each his own
keep looking Because u look so Lazy for some one try hard

[Thorne]

btw ur so Wrong about that and in English we say, "To each his own
keep looking Because u look so Lazy for some one try hard

Well let's see here. My handy-dandy Google Translator says that "chaqu'un son gou" means "each one his government", and "les gout ca s'peut pas" means "how can He not the taste". Neither of these seems to mean much to me in context with the religious theme of your posts, but "To each his own" does imply that every person is entitled to his own opinion, whether of tastes or governments, or even religion.

So please, tell me where I've gone wrong here.

[domaster]

Well let's see here. My handy-dandy Google Translator says that "chaqu'un son gou" means "each one his government", and "les gout ca s'peut pas" means "how can He not the taste". Neither of these seems to mean much to me in context with the religious theme of your posts, but "To each his own" does imply that every person is entitled to his own opinion, whether of tastes or governments, or even religion.

So please, tell me where I've gone wrong here.

chaqu'un son gou = evry one have his own tast

les gout ca s'peut pas" mean = the tast its thing that Does not discussed

[domaster]

I have lots of friends Muslim & Christian & Godless or apostate … I don’t know how call
Like I said we live all together we eat together & have Dinner together & there is how get Marry
& we have talk about god & religion time to time
All this & more & I have never Noted what you call it ….
Fight or War Against non believers
& show your post to some of my friends “non believers”
They Laughter lot

denuseri this is for you sweety
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TaBux...yer_detailpage

[domaster]

well to be clear about god...
there is only one god & Mohammad & Jesus Christ & Moses & David & Solomon & Ibrahim & Isaac & Ismail & Noah & Adam ...
And all The Prophet : (Prayers and peace be upon them is god Messengers)
And there Religion its god Religion its only one Religion and it the same Religion & it was getting updated every time god send a prophet & its Islam mean "Islam is derived from the Arabic root "Salema": peace, purity, submission and obedience. In the religious sense, Islam means submission to the will of God and obedience to His law"
And it was getting updated every time god send a prophet Because of the changes & Evolution
that was happening in human being life’s or every time the human being Stap away from god or from his
True Religion

You keep saying … which god I will Worship & which one it’s the real god
Guess what … “ it’s the Reason of your existence “ you are here to find the way to your Creator between all those Claims it’s the truth god using your Mind and Awareness and when you find your god you Finish your life Worshiping your god

“So as not to bother yourself looking for god let’s just stop believing on god it’s easier … ”

[Thorne]

well to be clear about god...
there is only one god ... And there Religion its god Religion its only one Religion and it the same Religion ...

I see. So your God is the "One True God"™ and your religion is the "One True Religion"™? You do realize that this same claim has been made, and is still being made, by every religion ever invented? And you have no more proof that you are right than any of those others had.

In the religious sense, Islam means submission to the will of God and obedience to His law"

And just how do you know what the will of God is? And how do you know what God's law is? By accepting the words of other men? You claim Muhammad was God's prophet, but what evidence do you have to show that claim to be true? Only his word! Or the word of other MEN who have a selfish interest in making people believe such nonsense.

And it was getting updated every time god send a prophet Because of the changes & Evolution
that was happening in human being life’s or every time the human being Stap away from god or from his
True Religion

But again, you are accepting those changes based solely on the word of people who CLAIM they are speaking for God. Why do you accept such claims without proof? Let's forget about proving or disproving the existence of God. Just prove that those men who say they are speaking for God are really what they say they are!

You keep saying … which god I will Worship & which one it’s the real god
Guess what … “ it’s the Reason of your existence “ you are here to find the way to your Creator between all those Claims it’s the truth god using your Mind and Awareness and when you find your god you Finish your life Worshiping your god

This is your opinion, not reality. In truth we are all here solely by accident, we all live our lives as best we can, and we all die. There is no evidence for any afterlife, there is no evidence for any gods, there is no evidence that any of your claims here have any validity at all except in your own mind. There is no justifiable excuse for spending your life praying to or worshiping a god who is probably not even there. And even if there were gods, any gods, why would anyone want to spend their time on their knees worshiping them?

“So as not to bother yourself looking for god let’s just stop believing on god it’s easier … ”

No, looking for God is easy. Just go into any church, or synagogue, or temple, or mosque, and ask the head shepherd. He'll tell you just how to find his God. Of course, he won't give you anything you can see, or hear, or touch, or taste, or feel. He'll give you rules and regulations galore, reasons why you have to listen to him rather than your own common sense, everything but God.

No, believe me, coming to the realization that religions have been lying for thousands of years, that there are no gods, no afterlife, no heaven or hell, these things are hard! It's the fear of what comes after death which attracts people to religion, because religious leaders claim to know exactly what happens after death. They can't tell you HOW they know, except that God revealed it to them, and you have to believe them because God commands you to believe them, and God told them THAT, too!

But you know what? There's a certain comfort in knowing that there is nothing after death. I no longer fear the afterlife, because I know it isn't there. I will be no worse off after I'm dead than I was before I was born. My memory will live on through my children and my grandchildren, hopefully with affection, just as the memories of my grandparents live on through me. And in some respects a part of me is living on within my children and grandchildren.

So if you want to spend your life listening to frightened old men who want nothing more than to control everyone around them, be my guest. But stop trying to justify it with the rantings of other frightened old men. Think for yourself, look at the real world without filtering it through your holy books. Look into the history of those books, how they were really created, and why. USE that mind you think God gave you.

[domaster]

Brief speech
You don’t believe on god prophet because they are man & you don’t trust man kind
Maybe!!! You are waiting god send you angels & this way you will believe in god
Well… my friend
Guess what… there was lots of people like you they said the same thing to the prophet as you.
The Quran with the original languish it’s a miracle from 14 Century until now no one can bring something like the Quran
& of course you don’t & you will not believe on it & you will not look on it or look for your god …
Why …
Oh you are waiting for a proof.
Keep waiting … who know … its will fall on you some day