Online (vs) Reallife

[Brosco]

Oh Oz, I respectfully disagree with that!

Let me stand beside you Tojo. Anyone who follows our O-on-demand thread can see (i hope) that fantassy and I are having a very fulfilling relationship. We are both providing what the other needs at this point in time, without additional complications. Now, whether either of us will require more in future is not the issue, but for now, fantassy provides all that I want from a relationship, and I strongly suspect that she requires no more also.

At one stage in my life (I am fossil material), we relied on radio (wireless) for our entertainment, then TV came along. In relationships we relied on physical presence, but then the internet came along. Now, I still listen to the radio and still like physical contact, but I certainly don't dismiss the new 'media' as inferior.

In reallife we have to accept compromises. but on the net, we can let our fantasies run free. Fantassy and I haven't even exchanged photos or even descriptions, let alone using a webcam - we just enjoy the interaction of the mind without any hangups from the physical world. I don't suggest that this would work for all, but for both of us, it is all we need to provide a very satisfying relationship for both of us.

Brosco

[fantassy]

In reallife we have to accept compromises. but on the net, we can let our fantasies run free. Fantassy and I haven't even exchanged photos or even descriptions, let alone using a webcam - we just enjoy the interaction of the mind without any hangups from the physical world.
Brosco

I hear that cute Aussie accent and keep picturing an older Patrick Rafter in my mind, but Brosco informed me this weekend he looks more like Hugh Jackman. . ..lol

fantassy

[Ozme52]

I'll pose the same basic question to you Brosco. Given all else equal, you would prefer not to be with fantassy in real life?

Let me stand beside you Tojo. Anyone who follows our O-on-demand thread can see (i hope) that fantassy and I are having a very fulfilling relationship. We are both providing what the other needs at this point in time, without additional complications. Now, whether either of us will require more in future is not the issue, but for now, fantassy provides all that I want from a relationship, and I strongly suspect that she requires no more also.

At one stage in my life (I am fossil material), we relied on radio (wireless) for our entertainment, then TV came along. In relationships we relied on physical presence, but then the internet came along. Now, I still listen to the radio and still like physical contact, but I certainly don't dismiss the new 'media' as inferior.

In reallife we have to accept compromises. but on the net, we can let our fantasies run free. Fantassy and I haven't even exchanged photos or even descriptions, let alone using a webcam - we just enjoy the interaction of the mind without any hangups from the physical world. I don't suggest that this would work for all, but for both of us, it is all we need to provide a very satisfying relationship for both of us.

Brosco

==> Yes, it is the issue if you feel it will eventually provide more than you have now. That was exactly the point I was making.


==> Well, there you go... because I wasn't thinking about, or answering, the question in terms of a fantasy relationship.

[fantassy]

I'll pose the same basic question to you Brosco. Given all else equal, you would prefer not to be with fantassy in real life?

let me take a shot at answering your questions, Oz. Do I imagine being with Brosco in real life. Yes. Would I prefer to be with Brosco in real life - not necessarily.

==> Yes, it is the issue if you feel it will eventually provide more than you have now.

In many ways of course being together in real life would provide more than we have now, BUT it also would provide more troubles than we have now. We have a huge age difference - not an issue online - probably an issue in real life. I'm preparing to start a new demanding career; Brosco is semi-retired. Brosco smokes; I'm allergic to smoke. I adore cats; Brosco doesn't care for them. I tend to come-and-go as I please and work late hours without notice. All of these things would be problems in a real life relationship but are completely unimportant to an online relationship. So, one needs to keep in mind that the "more" you have in real life isn't all good stuff.

==> Well, there you go... because I wasn't thinking about, or answering, the question in terms of a fantasy relationship.

I don't think Brosco was really talking about a fantasy relationship, but about a mental relationship. I have a basic idea what he looks like and vice versa. I think we have been honest in what we say to each other. But the true attraction, at least for me, is to Brosco's brain. I really like the way he thinks - not just in d/s stuff but in general. In a way, online can, if you are both being honest, allow you to get to know one another better without all the physical crap getting in the way.

Anyway, that's my two cents.

[Ozme52]

I don't think Brosco was really talking about a fantasy relationship, but about a mental relationship. I have a basic idea what he looks like and vice versa. I think we have been honest in what we say to each other. But the true attraction, at least for me, is to Brosco's brain. I really like the way he thinks - not just in d/s stuff but in general. In a way, online can, if you are both being honest, allow you to get to know one another better without all the physical crap getting in the way.
Anyway, that's my two cents.

fantassy,

You'll see above, that I've admitted to using Brosco's response in a manner that suited my perspective... (not apologizing for doing so mind you. It's one manner of pursuing a debate point.)

I agree 100% with what you've said here (highlighted red) but, again, I have to say, non-personal communications have, over our whole history, allowed us to get to know each other without meeting... but meeting is better.

Even if you don't believe you would connect on a long term basis... wouldn't you like to, just once, shake his hand, maybe give him a hug...

...and feel his breath on your earlobe as he whispered "cum for me."

[fantassy]

Even if you don't believe you would connect on a long term basis... wouldn't you like to, just once, shake his hand, maybe give him a hug...

...and feel his breath on your earlobe as he whispered "cum for me."

As they say, why ruin a good thing? Right now, when he commands "cum for me" it just washes over and through me. If he were really whispering in my ear, I'd probably get distracted by his scraggly beard or would be self-conscious.

fantassy

[Brosco]

I'll pose the same basic question to you Brosco. Given all else equal, you would prefer not to be with fantassy in real life?

Neither of us are in a position to be r/l at the moment (and wont be for some considerable time). The truth is we are getting more time together than if we were r/l - plus, as fantassy has already stated we enjoy getting into each others head and that would be harder to do with the physical distraction. So when all is assessed - we are happier and better off where we are.

==> Yes, it is the issue if you feel it will eventually provide more than you have now. That was exactly the point I was making.

No... you misunderstood me. Maybe fantassy or I may want more in the future.. and not necessarily from each other. I cannot predict the future. All I can say is the here and now.

==> Well, there you go... because I wasn't thinking about, or answering, the question in terms of a fantasy relationship.

Again, i am afraid you misunderstood me. Hopefully fantasssy explained this better. Because we do get into each others heads we can use some fantasy as an aid to what we are really doing. For example, it only takes a piece of rope around her wrist and she can feel hopelessy bound. Its a mindset we can create. But we aren't creating a fantasy about bondage, we are just creating a mindset that is an aid to what we are doing. We are able to use the mind with some fantasy aspects to dramically add to our reality. In an online environment this is easier to do because of the 'loss' of the physical presence, other senses increase.

Brosco

[Ozme52]

Again, i am afraid you misunderstood me.

Nope, I didn't misunderstand. I chose to use the sentences within your response that, imo, clarified my perspective. I understood, and understand, the points you were making...

I think it's a rationalization, but I understand it. I think this may have to be one of those... "agree to disagree" situations.

[katie_21]

I can relate to hearing that cute Aussie accent fantassy

[Tojo]

I can relate to hearing that cute Aussie accent fantassy

Oh you sound pretty darn nice yourself young lady.

Oz (sorry I said Brosco instead of Oz) I didn't say I wouldn't rather meet that special someone- I will be meeting an online friend later this year. I just don't agree that it's impossible to have a 'truly fulfilling relationship' via phone & internet.

As I say, it's different for everyone, that's just how it is for me- I have great satisfaction over the airwaves.

It's also possible to live with someone & NOT have a fulfilling relationship!


Tojo

[Ozme52]

Brosco I didn't say I wouldn't rather meet that special someone- I will be meeting an online friend later this year. I just don't agree that it's impossible to have a 'truly fulfilling relationship' via phone & internet.

As I say, it's different for everyone, that's just how it is for me- I have great satisfaction over the airwaves.

It's also possible to live with someone & NOT have a fulfilling relationship!

Tojo

First off, LOL, I think you're arguing with me... Not Brosco.

Secondly, adjectives are not quantitative. They're qualitative. I also have great satisfaction over the airwaves... Do those words mean exactly the same thing to the two of us? Maybe. We just seem to disagree on the words "truely fulfilling." I'm just bemused that you can have a truely fulfilling relationship online and still "rather meet that certain someone special."

So are we in agreement as to the concept but not as to the words to describe it?

[Ozme52]

I guess I must feel pretty strongly about this topic. LOL

[katie_21]

Looks like you do Oz lol

[katie_21]

oh gee Tojo, you're making me blush again lol

[Tojo]

oh gee Tojo, you're making me blush again lol

Oh I haven't even started yet Heather.


Yeah sorry guys, I swapped Brosco for Oz there-

Secondly, adjectives are not quantitative. They're qualitative

First up, it's not nice to use such profanity on a forum Oz. Keep using big words & I'll pick you up on your spelling!

So are we in agreement as to the concept but not as to the words to describe it?

Yeah I guess so- with reservations.... See the tricky bit is that the young lady I'm meeting in person, I'm not having a D/s relationship with.
However we plan on seeing how it goes in person for a week. Sort of a trial.

Also my long-term girl, I've never even seen a face shot of, much less on a webcam. We have an online relationship with strict boundaries, we really have no desire to meet in person.

So it's not as simple as all that.

Tojo

[Ozme52]

First up, it's not nice to use such profanity on a forum Oz. Keep using big words & I'll pick you up on your spelling!
Tojo

: razzleberry:

[submissivewife]

Ok, I have sat back and looked at this long enough and decided to put my two cents in.

I do feel that online can be very fulfiling, but can become unfulfilling to some. I have had mostly internet. To me internet is very mental and that is the kind of person I am. (YES! I'm mental lol) The mental domination is more fulfilling, to me, than the physical....NOT saying I don't like it. The physical scenes I have been in have been very much fun and exciting.

I have not had an actual "real life" experience yet (other than playing with my Sir a couple of times); which I desire more than anything. I do feel that once you start desiring more of the physical then the internet becomes unfulfilling. Some reach that point others don't and are perfectly content with interent....nothing wrong with that.

To answer Ruby's question....to me, real life is the actual physical interaction between the two.

subwife

[Brosco]

hey.... i trimmed it recently... it really aint that scraggly

brosco

[Uncle_Ed]

I have been participating in the general goings-on in this site for a very short time and have not come across chatrooms or role play areas before, but I have come to see I cannot truly believe that a fully-formed human being can be satisfied by an on-line relationship.
I can grasp that on one level role-playing will provide a certain pleasure and form of escape. I say role playing because this is what an on-line relationship must be. It is not real. It does not involve body language and contact. It is devoid of most things that define us as human.
I read that people are satisfied by mental contact and by adopting a particular mind-set and frankly it makes me want to weep.
There are so many nuances in a glance. So many pleasure in a touch. Such an eroticism in a perfume. A joy in a lover's sigh. The taste of anothers body.
We have five senses and they are all used in a relationship of true depth. I will not subscribe to the way of thinking that says electronic transmissions of our intentions can be a substitute. Merely an imitation.
I will agree that such contact can be auto-erotic. The ideas sent out providing the sender with a thrill more than the recipiant. If you cannot actually see, hear, touch, smell or taste the other you can rely solely upon their statements-which you interpret from the written word alone and your own statements of feelings.
For what are two typists doing other than describing the way they wish their senses to react? Is it not better to actually have the senses stimulated?
Please lets have clear division between reality and fantasy.
What we read here is far removed from everyday life.
I do not say that an on-line relationship is bad. I do point out that it is a pale substitute for a human one. If we begin a new step in evolution by becoming satisfied with contact-by-wire then we risk losing the very things that make us what we are.
By all means start with the exchange of view points and investigate beliefs, likes, dislikes aspirations and so on. But do not be satisfied until it involves real contact.
William Shakespeare wrote:
"How weary,flat, stale and unprofitable seem to me all the uses of this world"
Don't settle for that.


Not written by EDMUNDO SLOTH.
Written by a real person behind the facade-for what is this other than that against which I rant?
Now, there's a paradox.

[fantassy]

I say role playing because this is what an on-line relationship must be. It is not real. It does not involve body language and contact. It is devoid of most things that define us as human.

I must disagree. Although it CAN be, online does not HAVE to be role playing. Furthermore, I have had, and observed even more, real-life relationships which involved far more role playing. People often pretend to be what they believe the other will desire, even in real life. One must make a conscious effort. in either environment "to be real."

I further disagree with what you allege defines us as human. My brain is what defines me and makes me unique. Kindness, compassion, wit, reason, humor, empathy, insight, helpfulness - those are the traits I see as defining and desireable in humanity, and they all have to do with the brain, not the physical senses. My cats can see, hear, smell, touch and taste, but that doesn't make them human. (ok, they're almost human ....lol).

Perhaps the best response is your own Shakespeare. What is it that made Shakespeare great? - his words and insight into humanity - and that insight was about people's characters, not their physicality.

I'm not saying the 5 senses are unimportant - I certainly believe being able to hear Brosco enriches our experience, I'm just saying the 5 senses are not ALL-important. You cannot arouse me by using my 5 senses (no matter how hard you try) if you do not arouse my brain; however, Brosco can arouse me merely through words without using any of the 5 senses. But I will admit, I am an extreme case, heavily geared toward the mental aspect of things in all areas of life. As noted many times before in this forum, we are all individuals here - what works for one isn't going to work for everyone. So although it may not work for you, please don't dismiss it as lesser.

fantassy

[Silke]

I think you raised a very important point here, and one that I have been pondering myself over the last couple of months. I've enjoyed playing online, doing tasks for people that I have never met in person, even building some sorts of relationships over the internet or phone. But I have to admit, as much fun as it was (and still is) I know I won't be happy until I find someone to explore in real life for most of the reasons that you stated yourself. There's always something missing...

Then again, some of the previous posters have fulfilling relationships outside of this medium and are merely looking to add to that by finding an online partner to live out certain fantasies or explore new territory. And that makes perfect sense to me, they have both...someone to touch, smell, taste and fulfill their needs, and someone to stimulate their mind and add another dimension, whatever that may be. You see, most of the posters here probably wouldn't settle for an ALL online relationship if there was no one there to come back to in r/l.

Others might just be looking for the substitute you're talking about, or they might have withdrawn into a fantasy world...

How about me? Well, I'm a single in r/l and I wish I had someone here with me, but I haven't found that special person as of yet and refuse to settle for less than I want and deserve. (yeah, guess I'm picky ) So, I definitely fall into the "substitute category". And it's fine. It's a hell of a lot better than nothing...a very good substitute for the time being. I have a very creative fantasy and fill the gaps that mere virtual contact leaves.

The next question that comes up to me is what happens with my online life when I finally find a r/l partner and take my playing out of this environment and into reality? Will I give up on the fun and friends I've met here? Hell, NO! But I think my motivation and focus would change.

I really love your passionate plea for using all senses to paint the whole picture, EDMUNDOSLOTH...or whoever might be smiling through a small window in the facade.

Silke

[Brosco]

Edumdosloth,
I am sorry to say that your post judges anothers tastes with a clear lack of knowledge on the topic. First understand that very few internet relationships rely on the written word for communication - most use at least voice communication and some also add visual (webcam).

We have five senses and they are all used in a relationship of true depth. I will not subscribe to the way of thinking that says electronic transmissions of our intentions can be a substitute. Merely an imitation.

So if a person if deaf or blind in a r/l situation you suggest that they cannot have a fullfilling relationship??? They also only have an imitation? OMG .. who is sad?

Division between fantasy and reality? Come on now... do you suggest there is no place for fantasy? Are you so limited in your 'reallife' that fantasy isn't used?

I do not say that an on-line relationship is bad. I do point out that it is a pale substitute for a human one.

You may point out all you like that doesn't work for you - but don't dare suggest that you can speak for all others.

Brosco

[Uncle_Ed]

Edumdosloth,
I am sorry to say that your post judges anothers tastes with a clear lack of knowledge on the topic. First understand that very few internet relationships rely on the written word for communication - most use at least voice communication and some also add visual (webcam).

Brosco
I have a right to state my opinion-indeed you asked me to by posting thread.
I said that my experience was sparse but I stand by what I said.
I am surprised that you are so defensive-why give a damn? I stated in another thread that if on-line works for you then great! Don't pay me any attention-enjoy your time on-line.
I will point out one thing though.
Above you are telling me you use voice and visual communication You are therefore getting as close as possible to R/l. Which is what I am trying to say all along-you are clearly a passionate human being and need to use your 5 senses.
In friendship.
Ed

[Brosco]

Brosco
I have a right to state my opinion-indeed you asked me to by posting thread.

Understand Ed, you have the right to any opinion, you have the right to disagree with me, you have the right to even pass stupid concepts as opinion, and I will not object. My only objection is with your previous posts where you stated opinion as fact. The fact that I posted an opinion does not give the right for another to attack me or my views. Just as you should not be attacked for stating your views. But I do seriously object to some of your post:

I have been participating in the general goings-on in this site for a very short time and have not come across chatrooms or role play areas before,

Online relationships are not roleplay - do not diminish them as such.

but I have come to see I cannot truly believe that a fully-formed human being can be satisfied by an on-line relationship.

If anyone can see that as anything but offensive I would like to see how!

I can grasp that on one level role-playing will provide a certain pleasure and form of escape.

again, a real relationship is dismisssed as roleplaying in your mind. You are commenting on somethingh beyond your comprehension.

I say role playing because this is what an on-line relationship must be.

... and your source of reference is???? your lack of knowledge and experience truly shows.

It is not real. It does not involve body language and contact. It is devoid of most things that define us as human.

fantasssy has already shown your definition of human failed. I noticed you failed to respond to her.

We have five senses and they are all used in a relationship of true depth

So therefore a person that has lost one sense, say hearing or sight, is incapable of having a satisfying relationship?

I will not subscribe to the way of thinking that says electronic transmissions of our intentions can be a substitute. Merely an imitation.

I accept that it won't work for you, but don't call it an imitation for all others.

I will agree that such contact can be auto-erotic. The ideas sent out providing the sender with a thrill more than the recipiant. If you cannot actually see, hear, touch, smell or taste the other you can rely solely upon their statements-which you interpret from the written word alone and your own statements of feelings

solely the written word???? do you have a clue about the topic you are responding to?

For what are two typists doing other than describing the way they wish their senses to react? Is it not better to actually have the senses stimulated?

again..., do you know anything about this topic?

Please lets have clear division between reality and fantasy.

Again, very offensive to imply I only have fantasy. Are you so limited in r/l that you wont use fantasy? I know I do in online, but that doesn't make all online fantasy.

What we read here is far removed from everyday life.

Really??? I know several ppl in r/l relationships that use this because of busy work schedules, business travel etc.

I do not say that an on-line relationship is bad. I do point out that it is a pale substitute for a human one.

It may be a pale substitute for you, in fact I feel sorry for you that you are incapable of adding it to your relatioinship, but regardless, just because something is inferior to you, does not make it so for others.

I have absolutely no problem with your disagreement with me. You are fully entitled to your opinion, but I am entitled to mine. And while you may argue against any opinion I hold, that does not give you the right to criticise me for my beliefs. I repeat:

but I have come to see I cannot truly believe that a fully-formed human being can be satisfied by an on-line relationship.

is a particularly offensive statement. I am a fully formed human being that has openly posted my views here for all to see. If you could not understand, all you had to do was ask.. but instead you just diminished and ridiculed.

Brosco

[Uncle_Ed]

*Sighs deeply*

In this world of kids communicating by text, "reality" TV and on-line relationships, Brosco I am clearly a dinosaur

But if that is the future I'm glad that I've lived out most of my four score and ten.

I'll leave you to your world.

[Brosco]

*Sighs deeply*

In this world of kids communicating by text, "reality" TV and on-line relationships, Brosco I am clearly a dinosaur

But if that is the future I'm glad that I've lived out most of my four score and ten.

I'll leave you to your world.

4 score and 10 makes you 90 y.o ... ok... i'm just a young pup of 57.

btw.. thank you for the apology of the remarks I found offensive... us youngsters have a lot of stock in those... I guess they weren't in your era!

[Brosco]

So although it may not work for you, please don't dismiss it as lesser.

This is the important part, not just for this thread, but for any topic that anyone cares to comment on. Express your own feelings and opinions about any topic, BUT, never assume that your own feelings are global or apply to all!

I am proud of what fantasssy and I achieve online. At times I even suspect we achieve more than many reallifers do. For anyone to suggest we just roleplay is an insult. LOL ... the hours of torture I sometimes put fantasssy thru is far from roleplay or fantasy and is far more than many could take in reallife. It is very real, and if you can't comprehend it, by all means say so - but please don't dismiss something just because it is beyond your own imagination.

Brosco

[Aesop]

I've kept my nose mostly out of this topic until now because for me it's a done deal. I have both and enjoy both and if they come up with something new I'll probably have that too.

I have to say now that I am having a hard time understanding the....sensitivity? I suppose you could call it of some of the posters in the thread. It's almost as if you're debating religion or politics. I understand that blanket statements have set some people off, but those blanket statements are opinions being expressed, not laws being laid down.

To Brosco: You asked the question, my friend. To then state that someone not dare suggest something is rather close-minded of you I think. Edmund is entitled to his opinion that online is a pale comparison to r/l. Just as you are entitled to your opinion that you achieve more than many real-lifers do. Both inflamatory statements if heard through defensive ears.

Relax everybody. This has been a great topic, but let's remember we don'thave a wolf pack mentality here.

[Aesop]

This is the important part, not just for this thread, but for any topic that anyone cares to comment on. Express your own feelings and opinions about any topic, BUT, never assume that your own feelings are global or apply to all!

One last thing Brosco. While I generally agree with that statement, people are free to believe that something "just doesn't work". One cannot express feelings that something just doesn't work in a singular fashion. By definition it is global.

[Brosco]

One last thing Brosco. While I generally agree with that statement, people are free to believe that something "just doesn't work". One cannot express feelings that something just doesn't work in a singular fashion. By definition it is global.

I disagree. It is very easy for someone to state that something doesn't work for themselves without suggesting it couldn't possibly work for anyone.