The Right to Offend

[wmrs2]

Not surprisingly you can't seem to come up with any valid arguments to refute my statements. You therefore resort to name calling. I refuse to fall into this trap and lower myself to your standards.

When you can come up with a reasoned argument which counters mine, let me know. Calling me, and others here, terrorists is not a reasoned argument. It's merely a desperate ploy to justify your own beliefs.

And for the record, I never claimed to be a manufacturing or business leader. I merely stated that the company I work for is near the bottom of the economic ladder. We make parts which are combined with other parts to make components, which are then joined with other components to make, eventually, equipment or consumer products. As are most people here, I suspect, I am a simple employee, working a full time job to make a living. I t.
don't own or manage the business. I'm just a "grunt".

And for most of my life I've been middle of the road, I suppose, in a political sense. There are some conservative values which I admire and some liberal values which I admire. But when I see wrongdoing I don't care which side of the fence it's on: it's still wrong!

So you are a grunt are you? You sure sounded like a big shot while insulting the President and Vice President with the inference that they were corrupt. While you strip away the dignity of our President with your slurs and contempt, we are suppose to treat you with kindness and respect. I refuted each of your arguments without calling you any names. It was you who referred to me as using moncho logic and being a ditto-head. Of course when you resort to such ploys that's not gutter talk. If any name calling has been started here, you started it. If any refuting of your rationality stated here and made you feel like a terrorist, you initiated it.

Do you think any of the parents and loved ones of our dead soldiers feel they have experienced further ranting from a terrorist when they are told that their child died for a worthless cause? The majority of grieving parents respect the President and the cause for which their children died. They don't want to hear your ranting from the gutter and it is not the American spirit that adds to their grief. I did not call you a terrorist but if the shoe........

You can present arguments against Bush without name calling and you can be polite in a debate. I have not seen too much of that among and your comrades who hate Bush. I have been called a shit-head, told to get may head out of my ass, and now you. Your are just a little better at covering up you nasty language and bitter attitude than some of the others but when you are challenged a little bit, you show your ranker with your superior intellectual facade.

[Thorne]

So you are a grunt are you? You sure sounded like a big shot while insulting the President and Vice President with the inference that they were corrupt. While you strip away the dignity of our President with your slurs and contempt, we are suppose to treat you with kindness and respect. I refuted each of your arguments without calling you any names. It was you who referred to me as using moncho logic and being a ditto-head. Of course when you resort to such ploys that's not gutter talk. If any name calling has been started here, you started it. If any refuting of your rationality stated here and made you feel like a terrorist, you initiated it.

I happen to be a well-educated grunt, about as far from a big shot as I can get, and happy to stay there. And I did not state or infer that either the President or Vice President were corrupt, merely that they are historically connected with Haliburton and the oil industry, something which is well known and documented and which they will tell you is true. As required by law they have distanced themselves from any active role in those industries, and in fact are not permitted to even control their investments directly. They do still have emotional ties, as well as financial ties, to those industries, all above board and legal. Those ties do, however tend to influence their decisions, naturally. There's nothing wrong with that. As you pointed out, they join a long list of our political leaders who have done the same thing or worse. But when they put the well being of those industries above the lives of American soldiers, then there is a serious problem.

As for stripping away the dignity of the President and Vice President, I doubt very much that there is anything I can say here which could do that. It seems to me that they have been quite adept at doing that for themselves.

Do you think any of the parents and loved ones of our dead soldiers feel they have experienced further ranting from a terrorist when they are told that their child died for a worthless cause? The majority of grieving parents respect the President and the cause for which their children died. They don't want to hear your ranting from the gutter and it is not the American spirit that adds to their grief. I did not call you a terrorist but if the shoe........

Unless you have lost a child in this war, or any other war, do not presume to tell me how those parents feel! I have not lost anyone close to me, for which I am grateful. I cannot fathom the grief and anguish these parents are having to endure. I try to respect that grief by not denigrating what their children have done. Those soldiers were doing what they were trained to do, following their officers into combat and putting their lives on the line for a cause which they hopefully felt was just. I could never characterize their sacrifice as "worthless."

I have been called a shit-head, told to get may head out of my ass, and now you. Your are just a little better at covering up you nasty language and bitter attitude than some of the others but when you are challenged a little bit, you show your ranker with your superior intellectual facade.

Other than characterizing you as a "dittohead" I have never called you any names, nor have I intentionally implied that you are anything other than a concerned citizen stating his views. It is my understanding that those followers of a certain radio personality who enjoy parroting his highly conservative rhetoric are proud to call themselves "dittoheads." True, I did use the term sarcastically, I admit. But after being compared to terrorist supporters and accused of celebrating the deaths of soldiers I think I was quite restrained.

This thread is a perfect example of why I hate political arguments. I doubt very much that there is any evidence you can present which would convince me that our leaders have placed the best interests of the American people first, ahead of those businesses and even foreign countries which have supported them. And by "leaders" I mean both Republicans and Democrats, from the executive and legislative branches, and yes, even from the judicial branch. I believe that the best thing that could happen to this country would be for all of the incumbents to be voted out of office and be replaced by people who are willing but reluctant to serve, who will put the interests of the American people and the country ahead of their own and ahead of the interests of those who have financed their rise to power.

A nice fantasy, is it not?