Thank you wings... I couldn't have said it better. And yes, that is what is a parent is... just as what a Dom is. And just as a dom has to punish at times so do I as a parent... that is the only way to help the growth process. And I am a firm believer in the "natural consequences" theory problem is some "natural consequences" happen so far down the road, and when a child is past the point of being a decent person that I do and will create and enforce those types of consequences now, while they are still young enough to learn from them.