Deleting Threads (and Posts)

[S_Couture]

FF, in the course of moderation, there are posts that should be deleted, just as there are people who need to be banned or suspended. The post you mention falls into this category I should think.

However, it's the arbitrary manner of this deletion by TG that bugs me. If it was announced that there was a space issue on the server and that some of the old posts or picture files were to be deleted, I don't think anyone would have a problem with it.

That hasn't happened. Instead, it's been, "Oh the threads are kind of messy. I decided to do spring cleaning."

These are conversation boards. They are not TG's personal playground for dispersal of sundry bondage tidbits. A wish for happy birthday has just as much right to stay as TG's rant about posers.

Oh, and congratulations, how big are you? ;-) I mean when are you due?

[Finding_Fantasy]

I don't think that he sees it as his personal playground. I am not picking fights, it is just that I know him a lot better than most (since I am his wife after all).

Personally, I don't think there is much cause to tear a strip off of him because of deleting a few "Happy Birthday Threads" or "Thanksgiving threads".

*sighs* It just bothers me more than a little bit that he is being battered and bad mouthed because he did what he thought was right. Can people not see that he was just trying to make things a little bit easier for everyone to navigate? He had no personal agenda or vendetta he was just trying to help keep thing organised.

However, if people really want to end up with one, two, three dozen or more pages of threads that no longer get replies or see any activity then that is why I suggested the Thread Archives.

All I am asking is that you cut him a little slack and perhaps try and see it from his point of view. Please. I am begging you. There is no need to berate him so much. He has remained civil despite all the nay sayers. I just wish that every little thing didn't have to turn into another brawl where he is the bad guy.

Anyway, I give up. I don't know what else to say that can perhaps make you at least understand where he is coming from rather than jumping all over him every time you disagree with him.

I don't want to fight, I want to make peace but it seems that everyone is out looking for a fight these days.

As for the baby, she is actually already 6 and 1/2 months old.

[GaryWilcox]

Originally posted by ~d~
*grin* my first post here was under another name... in a thread that was neither important nor particulary earth shattering...but for me it is important because i was made to feel welcome...*grin* by GW....and it kept me coming back... and late at night i occassionally revisit the memory of the welcome i was given here....

That's an important point-- there are some things that hold sentimental attachment. I'd hate to delete anything like that. Abnd deleting whole threads is a rarity here.

When I delete a single posting, it is because the content of the posting is 1) off topic and 2) meant to antagonize. I don't think I will be doing any sprucing in the Community section. But here;s something to consider...

You might notice that some topics, started by me in early 2002, are being continued here. That's because I looked over the topics and found I had more to say. Recently, Gwen's (G42) "Psychology" thread was brought back to life-- by a newbie, natch, who hadn't seen the topic before and found something interesting to say.

The best way to keep a thread alive is to remind someone about it. I'll spare anything that shows a steady pattern of posting. Otherwise, let's make new memories.

D, PM me and TG with links to those three threads and we'll see what can be done to spare their loss.

[Faibhar]

Apparently a reply in another section of this forum somehow ran against the grain of GW's policy for deletion:

When I delete a single posting, it is because the content of the posting is 1) off topic and 2) meant to antagonize.

Can't understand it, either, but the Moderator's dictums shall be enforced and respected. You may also call my decision not to further post here "overreacting" but since not knowing exactly where to spot where an infraction was made ("1)", or "2)"?) any further posting would merely be a waste of time, possibly leading to even further deletions.

Thanks and appreciation, however, to the many wise and stimulating postings that proved not to be off topic nor meant to antagonize.

[GaryWilcox]

Originally posted by Faibhar
Apparently a reply in another section of this forum somehow ran against the grain of GW's policy for deletion:

Can't understand it, either, but the Moderator's dictums shall be enforced and respected. You may also call my decision not to further post here "overreacting" but since not knowing exactly where to spot where an infraction was made ("1)", or "2)"?) any further posting would merely be a waste of time, possibly leading to even further deletions.

Thanks and appreciation, however, to the many wise and stimulating postings that proved not to be off topic nor meant to antagonize.

Re-read this post, Faibhar, and decide if it was your intention to offend or to make a sincere case against the deletion of your post. My response isn't based on personal choice. It goes with the 'tin star' I took when I agreed to be a Moderator.

I expect a little bit of a condescening attitude from Doms/Tops... hell, I even expect it as 'playing one's part'. I can't allow it when it drifts off topic. I thought the first part of your "Training for Doms" post was brilliant, but since I can't edit out what's offensive yet, I had to scrap it completely to avoid a pointless series of flames. I apologize for the removal of that first part-- I think you had the right idea and hit the nail on the head.

Interstingly, both you and VanillaSlave have decided to stop posting in response to this. I wil miss your posts. I will not, however, apologize for removing something that violates the Code of Conduct. I can't allow you, or Vanilla, or anyone to just flame these boards. I would do exactly the same thing again.

It seems there's a part of our set that enjoys it. I am not against putting an open place for flaming in the Community board, and letting anyone who cares to make nasty statements about their peers post there. The rest of the community will thereby not be affected by this topic drift, and only the folks who care to read that kind of malice need be bothered with it.

Anytime a post is brought to my attention with off topic, nasty remarks, I will be forced to delete it and make a polite warning. You have been given a great deal of leeway on your posts in the past, and I have often defended you as being 'charmingly condescending' in your attitude. It's a shame that one act of removal would drive you out.

Nevertheless, thank you for your posts to date, Faibhar.

[Mobius]

I am an American and becouse of that i have the attention span of a newt. As far as moving or deleting threads I say fine. If there has not been a post coment or read in say 3 months Then it is a dead thread. No censorship, no evil plot to rule the world.

If a thread has been said once it can be said again. For the benifit of newbys. So if the Moderators see a thread that is dead or just a bastion of retarted flamers let them delete or close the thread.

Perhaps The moderators would consider an idea. Maybe they could create an archive of dead threads that you all could charis and hold close to your hearts.

Or

If it is important to you just create a new thread and move on. there is so much hot air in this thread we could raise the titanic.



Also the next person that post's a comment longer than 4 paragraphs gets this treatment

[S_Couture]

FF, I'm not tearing a strip off anyone's hide. I respect the mods and the work they do. However, I disagree with this policy.

This is a community forum. Now, in any forum there are rules to follow etc. otherwise there is anarchy. Can you imagine participating in a club or whatever and there being a written record of events that happened. Then you have a newly appointed secretary who goes back and starts throwing away whatever he/she see's fit.

It totally abuses the the present and past members of the community.

And don't even get me started on off topic posts. It's fine for TG to post about some sort of space time thing, but Wilcox starts going through and deleting the posts of mere mortals.

I say again that the mods are abusing the community members. How many other long time community members have to raise objection before someone gets the point?

[Finding_Fantasy]

Originally posted by S_Couture
FF, I'm not tearing a strip off anyone's hide. I respect the mods and the work they do. However, I disagree with this policy.

But you have resorted to nasty remarks and there is no reason for that.

Besides...did you even read my other suggestion? About asking Jinn to create a Thread Archive? Why always dwell on the negative posts. Offer suggestions on how to keep things running smoothly don't berate people because what they have done. It's kind of like voting in a way... If you don't vote, don't bitch about who gets elected. It's done, get over it. Those lost threads are never coming back but instead of getting all hot under the collar offer useful suggestions, way to improve things. Be constructive.

Anyway, I have said my piece.

[S_Couture]

I think an archive would be fine.

[BDSM_Tourguide]

From Curtis:

I may be alone in this, but I view this Forum as a valuable (I wouldn't say 'important') historical record.

From S_Couture:

Why would you do that? ...you are botching it up.

From Lord Thomas:

My posts, threads, ideas, expressions; ... [are]being arbirtrairlly delelted.

From Lord Thomas:

By erasing what has been written before, is that not the eradication of O/our own historical record as Curtis pointed out?

From ~d~:

in deleting threads the history of this place is also being deleted...

From S_Couture:

However, it's the arbitrary manner of this deletion by TG that bugs me.

From S_Couture:

It totally abuses the the present and past members of the community.

My question is this: Have any of you people actually gone back and looked to see what was and was not deleted?

Have any of you looked through the four pages of the General Talk forum to see what's still there? Have any of you bothered to look at where some threads have been moved?

Have any of you bothered to read through any of these items that have been moved and offered me or Gary ay suggestions on where they might better be moved?

It is my recommendation to all of you that you look and see what's there before you start kicking my ass for deleting 18 threads with no replies. And hey, if anyone can name all 18 of those threads, then I'll apologize sincerely for getting rid of them.

[sm4hg]

Well, it seems this "deleting thing" has raised hell.
I'm a newbie (here in the forum) and I must say it's quite difficult to find my way through. If I'd like to post a thread I didn't know at all where to put it.
Therefore I guess it's not the worst idea to re-place some(!) of the threads where they belong. They might have been posted by newbies like me who didn't know where to put them. Some of the "elders" here might want to place their threads with purpose in the "wrong" section. Well, they can still express their purpose and I don't think the threads will be re-moved.
Deleting threads is something else. I agree totaly that it's a VERY short step from "cleaning up" to cencorship. Anyway I trust the people in here not to cencor anything. Otherwise they wouldn't be here at all, would they? And cleaning out old threads noone ever read or that are out of time isn't anything to worry about. Sometimes one has to throw away old, unused, (worthless?) items just to get more oxygen. Don't tell me you ever throw away anything.
As often there is the need of "cleaning" out flames. And that's a good thing to do. There are always some people around who think it's very funny to offend others regardless of the theme. Neither of us wants those nerks, do we?
So I'd say let the moderators do their work and concentrate on your own.
(Finally I apologise for my English. it's not my mother-tongue and I might have used the wrong expressions sometimes.)

[BDSM_Tourguide]

... we could. It would just be a matter of clicking one little button. If you notice when you post, there's a screen that says something to the effect of, "Thank you for posting... If your forum is moderated, your post may not show up until after it is approved by the moderators."

We don't do that though. We allow all the posts through, but if something violates the Code of Conduct, we will either warn the offender or remove the post. Gary Wilcox is more of a remover and I'm more of a warner.

[~d~]

Okay I think I need to give you a little of my background here….

I spent almost a year posting on a daily basis at another forum under the name I originally brought over to the library. My over 2000 posts were almost exclusively to a single thread that I helped to develop. The entire purpose of it was to give lurkers a place to come and feel comfortable while learning the ins and outs of how the boards worked. It also gave writers a place to talk through ideas.. .

This thread grew beyond what the original founders could have ever imagined. We had new people posting on almost a daily basis. At the core there were 6 people who kept it a place that people wanted to come to. Most of the people came and went very quickly…. They found their niches and moved on… other would lurk and just post enough that we knew they were watching and enjoying what they saw…it was a flame free zone on a board that had entire forums that were nothing but flamings…and for anyone that has been flamed or known someone who’s only interest is in seeing how much damage they can inflict knows… that is saying a lot.

That is not to say it was problem free.. there were plenty of problems behind the scenes.. there were some very strong people involved but it was a very rare thing for any of that to make it into the public eye…

Over time though it would on occasion happen…someone would feel slighted or ignored… someone would get hurt … and tempers would fly… but over time we had found ways to diffuse those types of situations but it always took time…

well in the middle of one of those situations one of the original posters decided that he’d had enough… so he contacted a mod… in literally the blink of an eye… over 10.000 posts were gone from a single thread ….Please understand this was a thread that had never even been off the first page of the forum in which it was placed…and suddenly it was just not there anymore….a year of my life…gone…. Inside that thread were so many little stories…stories found no where else … writing contests where the prize was just the sharing between friends… we had laughed there and cried there… we had had celebrations… and we had mourned there… we had shared ideas… and philosophies…we had flirted and we had fallen in love…we had made friendships and forged bonds…there is a little piece of me that I think will always mourn the loss of that place... we tried to recreate it...but it just didn't work... the magic of it was loss...

You’d think something like that couldn’t happen… but it did… what scares me is that it could just as easily happen here…because there is nothing to prevent it from happening...

Do I know what has been moved… no
Do I know where things have been moved to….no
In all likely hood unless I was directly involved in a thread I wouldn’t have clue anyway…

What I do know is the worse case scenario…because I lived through it…and it scares me that it could happen here...

[vanillaslave]

Gary Wilcox,

i'm not really sure what you guys are doing here... but carry on with your bad selves.

I am just a girl who is looking for a Dom who does not back down to the stupidity of the Admin/mods.

I will not discuss any off board conversations of OURS because they are OURS. I've had several off board convos with people i met here i have not discussed with anyone else.

here are my observations.

This is the best BDSM erotica site on the net bar none. I love reading the stories here.

TG is a bit full of himself, clearly it is his first Admin postition and he is young and learning his way. He has also never been to a board with a HISTORY. Sometimes people want to come back and read the happy birthday or go cubs or whatever thread to relive old times. Also newbies like to know how long the board has been here and who are the old timers and who are here just checking out the pics adn so we go to the last page and assume that is when the board began.AND btw TG, i like you just fine and yes i read ALL the "old posts" there were so few pages of them. FUrther the board holds 20 pages of posts and the charges t the board owner are the same whether you choose to delete them or not UNLESS people actually view the pages.. so Your arguement is moot. Charges to Jinn are based on VIEWS.

and while i am talking to TG, you bait the holy fuck out of people and then your wife comes in and say "let's not call anyone names" this can be cocumented when you and your wife called switches flakes and then berated them for flaming you.

THEN there is this forum where you ask for suggestions and comments.. I have never seen a suggestion or comment implemented. And i am viewing historically.

What i see is a bunch of people who suggest their threads be deleted because they are not listened too.

THUS my very real suggestion in deleting this entire area. IF you want to lay down the law, and clearly you do, then do so, but don't lay down the law and then open a comments and suggestions area.

CLEARLY you don't want comments or suggestions or else you can only accept ones that your wife approves of because she is here at every turn saying " oh please you don't understand how much work HE does"

I WOULD have kept my mouth shut on ALL of this had not Gary WILCOX decided to FIRST

IM me on my private account ( which i had given him) and told this was a nicey nice no arguement kind of place...WHICH I ALSO TOLD TG IN AN IM and that i would not be back as i could not express my opinion...

and TG called me a "WUSS"
and GW tried to counsel me into being nicer...

fine.

this is not my board, i need to go...

BUT THEN FAIBAR decides to flame me in an unrelated forum and GW IMs me AGAIN to say.. er someone um said something and er i had to um edit it...

and when i asked what and whom he was like " i don't want to say"

what kind of passive agressive shit is that? I HAD LEFT!

i knew who it was and what was said but I HAD LEFT!

and THEN Gary WILCOX decided to post the shit here?

I mean he would not tell ME but he will post it here?

and guess what?

the other party left too.

can't blame him.

if we can't disgree and argue about stuff? who will post here?

TG, GW, and about 10 other people.

do i like faibair? fuck no. but i will defend his right not to be fucked with by the mods/admins and decide to leave anyway.

So that is my story of my brief visit to this board. apparently everyone fights and the admin and mod can say whatever the fuck they want... when not deleting or accidently fucking up the picture thread or pontificating their little fingers off about THEIR OPINION... they swoop down and moderate everyone elses opinion..

lovely.

nice open community ya got here.

and finally i would not have said a word until GW decided to post personal information that i told him about not posting here. to this thread.

THAT is bullshit. had i wanted people to know (other than those i told) i would have said....


THIS IS MY LAST POST.

[Mobius]

Originally posted by vanillaslave
Gary Wilcox,

i'm not really sure what you guys are doing here... but carry on with your bad selves.

I am just a girl who is looking for a Dom who does not back down to the stupidity of the Admin/mods.

I will not discuss any off board conversations of OURS because they are OURS. I've had several off board convos with people i met here i have not discussed with anyone else.

here are my observations.

This is the best BDSM erotica site on the net bar none. I love reading the stories here.

TG is a bit full of himself, clearly it is his first Admin postition and he is young and learning his way. He has also never been to a board with a HISTORY. Sometimes people want to come back and read the happy birthday or go cubs or whatever thread to relive old times. Also newbies like to know how long the board has been here and who are the old timers and who are here just checking out the pics adn so we go to the last page and assume that is when the board began.AND btw TG, i like you just fine and yes i read ALL the "old posts" there were so few pages of them. FUrther the board holds 20 pages of posts and the charges t the board owner are the same whether you choose to delete them or not UNLESS people actually view the pages.. so Your arguement is moot. Charges to Jinn are based on VIEWS.

and while i am talking to TG, you bait the holy fuck out of people and then your wife comes in and say "let's not call anyone names" this can be cocumented when you and your wife called switches flakes and then berated them for flaming you.

THEN there is this forum where you ask for suggestions and comments.. I have never seen a suggestion or comment implemented. And i am viewing historically.

What i see is a bunch of people who suggest their threads be deleted because they are not listened too.

THUS my very real suggestion in deleting this entire area. IF you want to lay down the law, and clearly you do, then do so, but don't lay down the law and then open a comments and suggestions area.

CLEARLY you don't want comments or suggestions or else you can only accept ones that your wife approves of because she is here at every turn saying " oh please you don't understand how much work HE does"

I WOULD have kept my mouth shut on ALL of this had not Gary WILCOX decided to FIRST

IM me on my private account ( which i had given him) and told this was a nicey nice no arguement kind of place...WHICH I ALSO TOLD TG IN AN IM and that i would not be back as i could not express my opinion...

and TG called me a "WUSS"
and GW tried to counsel me into being nicer...

fine.

this is not my board, i need to go...

BUT THEN FAIBAR decides to flame me in an unrelated forum and GW IMs me AGAIN to say.. er someone um said something and er i had to um edit it...

and when i asked what and whom he was like " i don't want to say"

what kind of passive agressive shit is that? I HAD LEFT!

i knew who it was and what was said but I HAD LEFT!

and THEN Gary WILCOX decided to post the shit here?

I mean he would not tell ME but he will post it here?

and guess what?

the other party left too.

can't blame him.

if we can't disgree and argue about stuff? who will post here?

TG, GW, and about 10 other people.

do i like faibair? fuck no. but i will defend his right not to be fucked with by the mods/admins and decide to leave anyway.

So that is my story of my brief visit to this board. apparently everyone fights and the admin and mod can say whatever the fuck they want... when not deleting or accidently fucking up the picture thread or pontificating their little fingers off about THEIR OPINION... they swoop down and moderate everyone elses opinion..

lovely.

nice open community ya got here.

and finally i would not have said a word until GW decided to post personal information that i told him about not posting here. to this thread.

THAT is bullshit. had i wanted people to know (other than those i told) i would have said....


THIS IS MY LAST POST.

JUST joking

[Finding_Fantasy]

Hmmm... Well I suppose I have been told, haven't I?

*shrugs* I will not apologise for defending TG. I do not defend him because he is my husband, I defend him because I feel that things he has said or done were simply taken out of context. And, since I know him better than anyone else, I try to alleiviate the tenion, to try and be diplomatic. But I guess my attempt was all for nothing.

Granted, if I saw someone else unjustly being persecuted, I would stand up for them as well, even if it means butting heads with TG. And believe me, it has happened, just not in public because I don't air my dirty laundry where other people can see it. I know that vanillaslave has left, but I just felt the need to defend myself against the snide remarks.

~d~ I can truly understand how you feel about losing that particular thread. I would feel the same way if I had experienced it as well. However, you can take my word for it that he would never just up and delete something just because one person (other than say Jinn) wanted it so. I can understand your apprehension but I saw what posts he had deleted and looked at the last pages of the general myself and I assure you that there is still a lot there that he could have deleted and didn't.

And there in lies my problem. I can normally see both sides of the story and I hate flame wars and fights and I will usualy try and find a solution. If that warrants the types of comments that I received from vanillaslave, then fine. I am a big girl, I can take my lumps but it makes me wonder if it pays to try and help these days especially because it is always seen as me taking sides.

Now, it is my personal opinion that this thread has turned into something bitter and ugly aside from the few people that have kept a level head.

That being said, I have a challenge for everyone here. Let's see how many people can step up to the plate, but their differences aside, and be the bigger person. Let's see if we can work TOGETHER to find a solution that is mutally benificial to all involved. I TRIPLE DOG DARE YA

There. It's said. Will my advice be taken serioulsy? I doubt it but no can ever say I haven't tried. I still hold true to my suggestion of an archive.

[GaryWilcox]

Originally posted by vanillaslave
I am just a girl... who does not back down to the stupidity of the Admin/mods.

Note: I am stupid and you are brave.

TG is a bit full of himself, clearly it is his first Admin postition and he is young and learning his way. He has also never been to a board with a HISTORY... FUrther the board holds 20 pages of posts and the charges t the board owner are the same whether you choose to delete them or not UNLESS people actually view the pages.. so Your arguement is moot. Charges to Jinn are based on VIEWS.

Not really for me, but this was on topic. As for TG being a bit full of himself... I don't know if that has much to do with his reasons for trimming old threads or not.

and while i am talking to TG, you bait the holy fuck out of people and then your wife comes in and say "let's not call anyone names" this can be cocumented when you and your wife called switches flakes and then berated them for flaming you.

That incident... is why I became a Moderator. Which I have explained to you, to others in chat, but not to the forum in general (or to TG). It's a put up or shut up thing. I saw a problem with the way a conflict was handled in a chat room and I decided to see if I could help out instead of yelling or getting 'satisfied' with a rude comment.

The minute I started learning my ropes, I watched people trying to manipulate me into basically hating TG. I don't. We have very different ways of handling a crisis, but I think we both are actively trying to help the community out, and it's funny how much I realize we're alike, despite our differing personalities. If I saw TG doing something I didn't like, or posting something nasty in Community, I would act on it. And I am damn well sure he'd do the same for me. And we would resolve it. And then we'd go back to talking on topic again. That's how working forums function.

As for Finding Fantasy... she's not the person who put me on to your post. Someone flamed on your thread, and I acted with the same hand that I did in your case-- this time deleting Faibhar's post for topic drift. :: shurg :: In all of this you have yet to tell me what you would have preferred, or how I could have handled the matter differently. I'm beginning to suspect that it's not really even at issue for you. Which leaves me wondering why you bristle every time TG or I make a move.

I am neither for you nor against you. I just keep the sidewalks clean here, lady.

THEN there is this forum where you ask for suggestions and comments.. I have never seen a suggestion or comment implemented. And i am viewing historically.

So... stop making them.

We folks who want stuff will keep trying on the hopes that Jinn will someday cave in and give us these neat little extras.

For the time being, those who want it are enjoying a chat room. Non official, of course, but that's how things generally get done in the world-- people do it themselves, or take any kind of hand in their own life's progress. But you're correct-- I don't think Jinn has changed the forum much since it first began.

THUS my very real suggestion in deleting this entire area. IF you want to lay down the law, and clearly you do, then do so, but don't lay down the law and then open a comments and suggestions area.

We didn't 'lay down the law and then ask for suggestions'.

This area has been around as along as the forum. JINN is asking for suggestions. You're being dramatic, accusing us of a hipocracy that is beyond our capability. The irony is maddening.

CLEARLY you don't want comments or suggestions or else you can only accept ones that your wife approves of...

Can you hear yourself? Do you ever stop and read these things before you send them?

If you have a single Comment or Suggestion that can be implemented by myself or TG... well, I can't speak for TG, but I would weigh it out, and do the only other thing I can...

Ask Jinn.

I WOULD have kept my mouth shut on ALL of this had not Gary WILCOX decided to FIRST IM me on my private account ( which i had given him)....

:: sigh:: You're not going anywhere, Vanilla. I don't really want you to leave; I just don't want this little community left open to unproductive hate mail. But letters like these leave me wishing you would just go.

I triple-dog-dare you not to respond to any further posts. Not to fire up and respond to this letter in an angry, passionate fit.

That's why the forum needs moderators.... this stuff gets out of hand... especially when people forget that in civil discourse, there are rules that must be obeyed.

You've shared a few secrets of our budding friendship with the rest of the forum... fine. I'll leave your secrets safe. But if a friendship means having to deal with this kind of rant... undisciplined, alone, and unsolvent as I am, I can find much better friends. Friends who actually give a damn about my feelings.

Friends who wouldn't sell me out on a difference of opinion.

and GW tried to counsel me into being nicer...

That was a mistake. The CoC is all I should be working with here. That was thinking like a friend; wanting you to have more friends, too. Thinking you wanted more friends.

Sometimes, these things... they just aren't meant to be.

and when i asked what and whom he was like " i don't want to say"
what kind of passive agressive shit is that? I HAD LEFT!

No you hadn't. :: Points to the post that you made. :: And you're reading this now.. you still haven't left, Vanilla.

The reason why I didn't tell you who made the off topic post? It doesn't serve any purpose but to tell you who to be mad at. Because everyone's fallible, and the last thing I wanted to do was reveal when someone has run afoul of the CoC. I will always keep those matters confidential, as long as I'm wearing the tin star. Which, right now, doesn't feel at all comfortable.

Faibhar outed himself in this thread. I responded. Vanilla, this isn't even the thread at issue-- how can you pretend that you left?

You're still reading. Be dramatic if you want, but be honest that you hadn't left, and still haven't left. Don't blame me for your coming back, Vanilla. You made the choice.

if we can't disgree and argue about stuff? who will post here?

TG, GW, and about 10 other people.

do i like faibair? fuck no. but i will defend his right not to be fucked with by the mods/admins and decide to leave anyway.

Earlier in this post you talked about the private IM we had. If you recall, when I told you I had edited out an off topic comment, you immediately you asked who it was that had made the comment, and then when I said I didn't want to tell you that, you said you were out of the forum anyway.

You could have mentioned that you would have rather I left the thread alone and let him flame. But you didn't.

You basically stopped talking to me after that, as I recall.

So that is my story of my brief visit to this board. apparently everyone fights and the admin and mod can say whatever the fuck they want... when not deleting or accidently fucking up the picture thread or pontificating their little fingers off about THEIR OPINION... they swoop down and moderate everyone elses opinion..

lovely.

nice open community ya got here.

and finally i would not have said a word until GW decided to post personal information that i told him about not posting here. to this thread.

Please reread it, Vanilla, since you're here anyway. The following is the ONLY REFERENCE to anything personal between you and I mentioned in my earlier response:

Interstingly, both you and VanillaSlave have decided to stop posting in response to this.

If there was something revealed in there you didn't want me to... like you not coming back to the forum... then I am sincerely sorry. I can admit that was a mistake, and I regret repeating anything about that.

[BDSM_Tourguide]

... this thread goes completely off-topic and degenerates into name-calling and bickering.

And again, I'm going to say: If you don't have anything nice, polite and on-topic to say, then keep your mouths shut. Please. There, I was polite.

Basically, at this time, the issue is unresolved. I will continue to clean up the threads. I will merge together threads on similar topics. I will put threads into place, based upon where I think they should most logically go.

Read this next part carefully, all of you:

If anyone has any opinions or suggestions or comments as to where I have moved some threads, then PM me and tell me where you feel the thread would be better suited.

Every area of this forum has a description telling each of you where to post what. I'm sure Jinn didn't have it in mind to waste his time and ours by making these guidelines. Let's use them. That way, no one has to tell me what an abuser I am for moving a thread off page seven of General Talk and relocating it to page one (of one) of Knowledge Base.

For now, I won't delete anything without first posting a message about it in the General Talk forum. I will make a link to the thread I want to delete and all of you will have 48 hours to reply to it and explain why the thread needs to be kept. People have already suggested to me that some topics should be dated and only kept for about a month after their initial posting. I agree with this. So, happy birthdays and holidays and Go Cubs! will all stick around for a month before either being relocated to the archive (if it comes to fruition) or removed to keep things tidy.

If a thread has some special meaning to you, for whatever reason, PM me and let me know and let me know why. I will be more than happy to keep it for you. I would ask that you provide a somewhat valid reason. I dont know what is important to you unless you tell me.

If there are any threads that people request they might want to be deleted for offensive content or whatnot, then PM me or post your objection in that thread and I will take your concern to Gary and Jinn and we will decide if the thread should be either left alone, locked or deleted altogether. And hey, even if it's something I have said, tell me anyway. I will listen to you and try to use your criticism, if it is constructive, to try and be a better moderator and a better poster. Do tell me privately, though, as that is the same courtesy I would extend to any of you.

It is my recommendation that, if you want to see a thread continued, then you should make an effort to post to it. Threads that sit around without replies I consider to be dead after a couple of months of no views and no responses. I would rather enjoy seeing more people post here. I would like to see more new members post here, but I'll address that though later and in another area of the forum.

So, here's what I want: I want us all to play nice, be polite and offer our comments and suggestions in constructive and productive ways. If you don't feel you can, please don't post it.

Now, please, have a great day and have happy holidays. Let's all try to come together and act like a community of friends.

[Curtis]

*sigh* I'm someone else who just can't stay gone, but I think there are a couple of points that need to be addressed for the sake of lurkers and new posters who may not be familiar with Forum history.

The first is that, contrary to statements made earlier in this thread, suggestions are sometimes acted upon by Jinn. I just went back and checked and in twenty minutes I found three that had been implemented directly due to this complaint process and three others that had also been implemented, but possibly before the suggestions were made. One of the suggestions acted on was one of mine, and another I made in a PM to Jinn has also been incorporated.

Meanwhile, six or seven others have been accepted and put on the queue. Some have been on the queue for a very long time but, you know what? I suspect that Jinn administers more than just this site and that the others may be providing some of the funding to keep this one running. You feed your family first.

That being said, Jinn, could you please take another look at your 'to-do' list and see if anything else can be ticked off?

Finally, to Finding_Fantasy: Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall encounter a roadside bomb.

[Lord Thomas]

Thanks TG for adding this new concept of putting up who is on the chopping block next. That way W/we as a community can ignore it and let it go, or stand up for it as a community.

I still do not like the idea of threads disappearing. Even if they are pushed to the back burner for a time. That is why I love the idea of an archive. Removing threads entirely really bothers Me. I hate the concept of someone else deciding what is worty of My eyes. Now I do not read everything, and I do not read everything every day. But if it is gone I will never get to read it if I choose to do so.

In the interest of getting people to post having them know that there is a safety net adn that thier ideas have value to the rest of us is important. I still think that wiping out threads does nothing to get people to post to anything at all. If you are the nervous non comfortable in crowds type, you will be even less inclined to post if you think that your words can be taken away at whim.

But if there is the recourse of letting U/us all know in advance what you are planning and why with threads, that would give us the chance to give input in the matter. I think this is something I can live with.

~LT~

[sm4hg]

Well, the idea doesn't sound bad at all. TG or anyone else who is in charge announcing to delete a certain post or thread so somebody can object to it.
but...my Lord... you said you could live with that? So for what time this announcement should be posted... A day? A week? A month? ...before the post/thread in concern is deleted? Some people come here only once a week, once a month whatever... do only the regular readers have the right to "vote" for or against a post/thread?

You see, it's not easy.

I like the idea to be able to read all the threads I don't know for chasing boredom or trying to find new ideas or opinions or whatever.
BUt does it bother me not to have read a post I didn't know existed??? Would it bother you?

[slavelucy]

Originally posted by sm4hg
BUt does it bother me not to have read a post I didn't know existed???

Hmmmm, has all taken a rather strange philosophical turn....can you mourn a missed opportunity that you didnt know was open to you....does that bus still exist when it goes round the corner....does the thread REALLY exist if you havnt actually read it....on and on it goes...

*smiles*

sl

[~d~]

okay a thread i just started got moved by GW... it was totally painless... and i have no doubt it will make for easier finding because i really didn't know where to post my question to begin with...

i have never had any problem with that issue....things need to be and remain organized...

but sl...you have touched upon what i have been trying to convey... When things are deleted... they are forever lost....when a newbie comes in and meets someone... and they want to know that person they do searches.... and in those searchs are our thought and ideas... our strengths and our weaknesses...it is a record of who we are as as indiviuals and who we are as a community....and the little things are just as telling as the large....

i love to tease... it is as much a part of me as the color of my eyes... but i don't do it a lot because i never know how anyone will react to it...but it usually shows up in the most peculiar places...

so if someone does a search of me... that part of my personality could and probably would be totally lost..simply because it is usually when thing get totally off course that i see the humor the keenest...

*grin* example:



code of contact

in a thread about conduct one of the most important issues discussed is about not hijacking threads and keeping them on topic...i honestly mean no offense but i find it totally hilarious that the post made by you was :

Hey!
Hey, kittenfemme, you're back! Did you have a nice birthday?

sl


*giggle* love, you hijacked the code of conduct thread...

*soft smile* the thing is... you are wonderful in that post... you are warm... and welcoming... it shows your heart and your caring...it show your joy at finding your friend...

Would it make a differnce in that thread if it was gone...not in the sense of the code... but that thread would lose something anyway... it would lose a moment of joy...and that to me would be a real loss....

If you found out that single off topic post was going to be deleted would you fight for it? Would it really matter to you? Probably not but that wouldn't change the fact that a post, made by you, that said something about who you are as a person... and about this community as a whole, would be lost... and that loss in my own opinion would just be sad....

[slavelucy]

Hi d,

i fully understand the point you are making d, honestly i do, we are, indeed, in cyber terms, a sum total of the words we type....but....if there is limited space, and some threads have to be deleted, then i just dont see what is so wrong with losing threads that have very few replies or have 'died'...if you see what i mean. The forums have to be moderated and in the end we have to trust someone to moderate them with consideration and tact. i read your previous message about that huge, and very personal and involved thread that got deleted off another site....that is obviously awful, but i really cannot see TG or any other moderator deleting a thread like that.

As for the Code of Conduct and my post regarding kittens birthday..*grin*...i think hijacking threads is a different subject altogether and is not wholly linked to the recent deleting of threads issue....i did however make that post when i was relatively new and didnt really have much understanding of the hijacking issue....and to be honest, if TG felt that it was inappropriate and deleted it, not with any hurtful or despotic intent, then i would live with it.

*sigh* it really is a tricky one....cos having said all of the above, i have just re-read your message and i still see what you mean...when i was a newbie, i gleaned a lot of information about people, their relationships, what they were like etc from old threads as opposed to new one's...

um....not sure what the outcome of this message should be now!! LOL! i think maybe i can only conclude that i see what you mean, but i just dont feel as strongly about it...

Love

sl

[pam]

I read through this ... in disbelief.

First, IF a thread is deleted by accident, it can be restored from the backup. (at least I backup my 8 forum sites daily, hopefully this board is backed up daily).

I don't delete threads on my forums, even if they're outdated and boring or whatever. I keep meaning to move them to an archive section but never have. My boards have an automatic feature that will remove threads after a certain date, but I don't use it.

Gee. a moderator made a mistake. He proved he is human.

Get over it.

It's not the first time and certainly won't be the last time.

[~d~]

i am sorry Pam if you or anyone else got the impression that i was upset over the accidental deletions of anything...accidents happen... that's just life....live and learn...

i know i have taken on a bull dog mentality with this...but as i said in an earlier post... i have seen the worst case senario when it came to deleting....

i hope this board keeps growning... i hope it lives up to its potiential...there are some great people here..

at the same time when i come to a post in a thread and the Moderator says:

"I removed a post on this thread just a moment ago, sacrificing some great on-topic discussion for some subtle off-topic flaming. Pained me to do it, but if I have to, I will. "

(the post in it's entirety can be found in Dom Training and the delete was done by Gary Wilcox)

then yes i have a problem ...there is just something in me that says....this is just wrong...

mod·er·a·tor [ móddə ràytər ] (plural mod·er·a·tors)

noun

1. somebody in charge of discussions: somebody who presides over an assembly, especially a legislative assembly, or who acts as a mediator in discussions or negotiations



me·di·a·tor [ mdee àytər ] (plural me·di·a·tors)

noun

1. somebody helping end a dispute: somebody who works with both sides in a dispute in an attempt to help them reach an agreement


that is what i think of when i think of a mod.... someone to come in and say "PLAY NICE...agree to disagree but DO IT WITH RESPECT or find someplace else to play" not someone to decide what is or isn't fit for the community as a whole to see...

*sigh* God i am so frustrated, i feel like i am beating my head against a wall...

[pam]

My comments weren't directed at you but at the general discussion, rude comments, and nonsensical crap

[slavelucy]

Originally posted by pam
My comments weren't directed at you but at the general discussion, rude comments, and nonsensical crap

i think what ~d~ meant was that there seems to be two seperate issues going on in the same thread - one being the accidental deletion of posts/threads and the other being 'official' deletion of posts/threads (if you see what i mean)...and ~d~ is concerned with the latter of the two.

sl

[GaryWilcox]

~d~,

First ammendment [snip] aside, I'll cut to the heart of the matter.

While I can appreciate that deleting posts feels like censorship, it's also living up to community standards. And community standards are outlined in the Code of Conduct.

We're talking in someone else's forum. It's not mine, not yours. This forum is Jinn's. While a community is made of its people, it is brought together under one understanding of how we will conduct matters, how we will I've been on other forums. I've seen people from other forums come in here and try to create unrest.

Recently I've learned that over at the BBC Survivor forum, there are different standards for behavior. Until Jinn alters this, I would continue to delete topic drift. Although I am usually pretty lenient about drift, mean spirited topic drift that starts flame wars is the first thing I'll delete.

If you had a chance to read the deleted post*, I could point out clearly that the message went from a great, direct to the point statement about Doms being better Doms when they train first as subs, to a broad attack on a single person for behavior outside of the current topic.

That's the stuff I will delete.

Now, in here, I would *love* to delete rehashing of this same argument, as I find it really embarrassing and a drag to deal with in the week since the last big deletion happened. But I won't. It's on topic. It's a fair argument. There are no personal attacks.

But I do feel that its unfair to cast me or TG as censorship-happy villains. If I delete a post, it's because it will derail the topic at hand into a flame war-- and more importantly, because it doesn't belong. Not because I don't want the community to see differing points of view.

And on that point, I'm bangin' my head right beside ya.

I have never deleted a rational argument in this forum, and I wouldn't. If I did, I'd step down for being a bad, bad, bad Moderator.

Why would you think I would do something like that...?

*

(the post in it's entirety can be found in Dom Training and the delete was done by Gary Wilcox)

The deleted post does not appear in the thread, obviously, in case a rubbernecker or two wants a peek at the carnage. <g>

[slavelucy]

Originally posted by GaryWilcox
But I do feel that its unfair to cast me or TG as censorship-happy villains.

Gary - after yesterday, i can think of couple of 'roles' i would like to cast you and TG in....but no, not 'censorship-villains' !*grin*

sl