Dominant loopholes

[FiestySlave]

I am a new sex slave and my Master is also new, but willing to educate himself on the subject and is learning quickly. However, I cannot help myself when he leaves a loophole but to take full advantage so he won't do it again. Let me give you an example...

He gave me permission to go to the bathroom, but then one thing led to another and we were soon having sex. I was on top and about half way through I decided to get off of him and go to the bathroom. He did say I could...

Anywho...as you can imagine, he was less than pleased and almost sent me home (ha, ha....but he didn't). At any rate, I apologized profusely and we finished....but technically, he left the loophole and I snagged it.

Every time he leaves a loophole, I take it....but he never leaves the same one twice. Personally, I think I am helping him become a better Master.

Nah! I am just a very naughty slave!!

Does anyone else do this?

[Ozme52]

You're asking doms if they leave loopholes for submissives to violate?

Those who do so purposely to test their submissives are not going to keep their submissive very long. Far better to set your sub up to succeed than setting them up to fail.

Do some do so accidently? Of course. But do you really want to play that game? Taking advantage of loopholes? Do you really want to drive your master to the point where you have zero latitude and he has nothing better than an automaton?

I'd suggest that being a naughty slave isn't something to be proud of and "helping" your master to be better by willful disobedience when you know you are violating the spirit of the orders isn't very becoming.

Do you think you'd keep a job very long if you never met expectations because you played the role of rules-lawyer? What makes you think your master won't tire of the game long before you do?

[fetishdj]

Barracks room lawyers are never popular. Sometimes it is better to think about the spirit of the law rather than the letter and apply a little common sense. Even if you are allowed to do something normally, for example, always be aware that that situation may change in the presence of your Master or when performing another task. You should always be able to ask permission if you think you are hitting a loophole (so, 'master, may I go to the toilet' when having sex is acceptable - he may say yes, he may say no but at least you do not get into trouble) and if you think enough ahead you can always pre-empt permission ('Master, while I am doing this task for you, what is the status of my other permissions? can I still go to the toilet/touch myself/cum/whatever?') so that you know exactly what is allowed.

This sort of preparation and thought is valued by a Master because it gives them cause to think about aspects of a situation which, maybe, they had not considered without looking like they are negligent of your needs. So, if you are not sure, ask.

[tigergirl]

Master calls me his little lawyer sometimes because I have a tendency to argue the loopholes. He punishes that more severely because he says it breaks at the foundation of who I am in regard to him when I play the lawyer. Its not fair to your dom, and it hurts the relationship. You obey out of a free choice and that is the allure for your dom. Anyone can force obedience but true submission isn't forced upon you. Yes, its hard not to lawyer at times but when you began to see it through the domain eyes you realize that it really isn't good or fun... try to stop looking for loopholes, think about the meaning of submission. That's one of the assignments Master gave me just a few days ago, an essay on the meaning of submission, and it really opens your eyes to what you are doing. Sometimes we just see it as cute or funny and don't think of how hard it is for the other person. Know I have rambled but hopefully something I said has been a help!

[brwneydgirl]

Anyone can force obedience

@OP: ^This is a good point here...do you enjoy "almost" being asked to leave? How much longer do you think he'll be happy playing that game with you? Eventually I'd worry that the "game" and, in effect, I would become tiresome to him.

[skittish doe]

Fiestyslave,
If you really want this relationship to work, ask yourself (be honest) what, specifically it is that you want out of it. Do you want him to punish you? Is that why you break down the D/s bonds? If so, perhaps you should look for more constructive ways to get a punishment. (Others with more experience might give you ideas if you ask nicely. I will offer up my idea in the spirit of goodwill.) Perhaps you could try asking him (not during a scene) if he would please consider giving you a spanking. Don't be a brat if he says no. That is his decision. You can offer up your needs, wants, desires for him... but it is only an offering. He chooses whether or not to take your offering.

In your example of having a "blanket permission" to go to the bathroom, what about that made you want to break down his efforts? Were you disappointed to have this freedom? Did you want him to have more direct control over your bodily functions? THAT part is what you need to communicate to him. If you are simply going to look for "loopholes" in his Domination, please realize what you are essentially telling him: he has made an error, he is doing something wrong. That is a cruel way to undermine someone. Think of it in an emotionally abusive light and ask yourself what you really want to do. I am assuming that you care about him and simply haven't stopped to consider your actions (or reactions) and their implications. It is not too late to approach him, confess to what you have been doing, apologize and discuss better ways to interact in the future. I hope this journey works out well for both of you. Good luck.

[StormKat]

I'm a total rules lawyer myself & it can be a lot of fun playing the loophole game - as long as both people enjoy the verbal & mental sparring it involves. There's also the matter of a proper time & place for joking around versus following the spirit of the law.

I had a months-long rules lawyer game running with my dom that was just awesome! Well, ok, except for the fact that I never actually won. I tried everything - even going back in time to build loopholes into the rules he wrote. But he had created the uber rule that let him overwrite or change any of the other rules whenever he wanted, which was just totally unfair. Evil man! Every time I was sure I had him, out came rule 45(b)...

[Ozme52]

Uber-rules rule!!!
.

[StormKat]

Uber-rules rule!!!

well of course you'd think so...

[Jennifer Williams]

My little one's whole life revolves around pleasing me, on making me happy; he feels successful when he hears his two favorite words in the whole world: "good boy". There aren't "rules" or "loopholes", there's "service." He his happy to be my sub, he wants to be my sub; if, somehow, I failed to have dominance over him in some way he'd gently point it out and say "Mistress, what are my directions for this?"

If he ever played some loophole game like that I think I'd feel extremely hurt that he was trying to "pull one over" on me; how can I trust him if I'm always afraid if he will skitter away from my grasp? It is like binding someone; they consent to the binding, they want to be bound, so if you miss a knot and they get loose they tell you and you re-tie it; they don't suddenly try to use their accidental freedom to try to escape.

Maybe you're not truly a submissive? Maybe you're a switch, or even dominant, perhaps you should look carefully at yourself and see what it is you truly desire in a relationship.

Or maybe you just crave a very strict Master and yours just isn't a good match for you, I suppose that could be the case .

[fetishdj]

I think some of the above posts can be summed up as 'The only golden rule is that there are no golden rules' or, alternatively, 'The Dom/me is always right, regardless of other rules'

[Ozme52]

My little one's whole life revolves around pleasing me, on making me happy; he feels successful when he hears his two favorite words in the whole world: "good boy". There aren't "rules" or "loopholes", there's "service." He his happy to be my sub, he wants to be my sub; if, somehow, I failed to have dominance over him in some way he'd gently point it out and say "Mistress, what are my directions for this?"

If he ever played some loophole game like that I think I'd feel extremely hurt that he was trying to "pull one over" on me; how can I trust him if I'm always afraid if he will skitter away from my grasp? It is like binding someone; they consent to the binding, they want to be bound, so if you miss a knot and they get loose they tell you and you re-tie it; they don't suddenly try to use their accidental freedom to try to escape.

Nicely stated.

Maybe you're not truly a submissive? Maybe you're a switch, or even dominant, perhaps you should look carefully at yourself and see what it is you truly desire in a relationship.

Good advice.

Or maybe you just crave a very strict Master and yours just isn't a good match for you, I suppose that could be the case .

Again, good advice, something for Fiesty to consider.

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Fiesty. Another perspective is not that you need a strict master, but that you need a master who prefers a consensual non-consenter. Someone who will enjoy capturing you and physically subduing you over and over again, someone who needs and wants every moment to be a struggle because it's the way he best feeds his need to express his power.

But that's not the role of a slave. That's not even a "typical" submissive (who serves and takes pleasure in serving.) If you enjoy that, then style yourself the consumate victim.

Your very name, it seems to me, is an oxymoron.

FiestyVictim might suit you better. And if you agree... then you may indeed have the wrong master.


N.B. No one need take offense at the use of "typical", I enquoted it to mean it to be "by my definition" and not necessarily anyone elses.

[Ozme52]

I think some of the above posts can be summed up as 'The only golden rule is that there are no golden rules' or, alternatively, 'The Dom/me is always right, regardless of other rules'

How can you be so right and so wrong at the same time....

No doubt about it... cuz I'm invoking rule 32a on you!! (I decided to change the number. It's a prime tenet of the rule that I don't have to even remember which rule it is.)

z

[skittish doe]

Another perspective is not that you need a strict master, but that you need a master who prefers a consensual non-consenter. Someone who will enjoy capturing you and physically subduing you over and over again, someone who needs and wants every moment to be a struggle because it's the way he best feeds his need to express his power.

But that's not the role of a slave. That's not even a "typical" submissive (who serves and takes pleasure in serving.) If you enjoy that, then style yourself the consumate victim...

...No one need take offense at the use of "typical", I enquoted it to mean it to be "by my definition" and not necessarily anyone elses.

This resonates deeply with me. I had not viewed this concept clearly before and it is begging for closer inspection (for me personally). Thank you for the enlightenment.

[fetishdj]

How can you be so right and so wrong at the same time....

If you do not understand how a Master can be both right and wrong, I am not going to deign to explain it to you

No doubt about it... cuz I'm invoking rule 32a on you!! (I decided to change the number. It's a prime tenet of the rule that I don't have to even remember which rule it is.)

z

There is always rule 7... don't take the piss...

[denuseri]

Dear Fiesty

I’ve stayed out of this thread for good reason. Grins.

(Only kidding I actually was looking for a way to frame my response while I gave some of the dominants a chance to respond first)

I am spirited myself to say the least.

It is imho expected "typical" anthropological behavior to test limits in all dominance hierarchies including bdsm ones; consciously or otherwise (especially between a dominant and submissive who are new to each other).

It is also a common practice for some, especially so in the particular form of bdsm/life philosophy that my Owner and I practice, to challenge each other on occasion throughout the relationship, in fact there is considered to be something wrong if it doesn’t happen from time to time.

Dominion must be tempered over time like steel, submission must be enforced and actively… lest one become complacent or weak and find themselves enthralled at the feet of one's own slave instead ...and a spirited kajira is not expected to give quarter in this, nor does her Master wish for anything less.

Such behavior is even considered ritually significant for some and follows certain protocols. It keeps us both; Master and slave alike, strong.

The best slave is not necessarily the most subservient, nor the most willful, in our view but what fits right for those involved. Too much of one or the other can spoil the mix for some. A happy medium somewhere in-between is often the most desirable. Where that happy medium lays for you, will be determined between you and the one who manages to hold dominion over you is my guess.

My Owner's lash tells me well enough what is too much or too little in this regard.

But that is not the only way we talk.

We actually sit down and discuss things at length and in great detail all the time (well he sits while I kneel lol) the point is that we both are on the same page in the above, its part of who we are, we communicate to each other, no one is playing a game with the other where one partner is ignorant as to the others intentions in this etc.

I highly recommend that you and yours make open honest communication paramount in your lives as well.

If your dominant is new or otherwise do not assume he can read your mind...nor you his.

I pray that the two of you shall have a long and fruitful journey together.

Respectfully

denuseri

[StormKat]

No doubt about it... cuz I'm invoking rule 32a on you!! (I decided to change the number. It's a prime tenet of the rule that I don't have to even remember which rule it is.)

z

What have I unleashed on an unsuspecting world??

Oh well, misery loves company - at least now I'm not the only one suffering from uber-rule whatever number it is at the moment!

[fetishdj]

I think it is determined by dice rolling which number that rule is this minute

[Jennifer Williams]

It's the ultimate

"Because I said so"

And that is that.

[FrgnSwtc]

I don't know why I'd search for loopholes if I'm in a D/s relationship. Naturally, a basic layout of rules should leave some as we're not talking about a full "legal system".

The issue here would be asking oneself if following a certain set of parameters set by another is what one wants. In any setting the violation of those guidelines could very easily result in frustrating the one putting them in place. It also depends on what you and your D want out of the relationship... if it's micromanagement you seek, then you'll get that very fast indeed if you choose to continue on that path.

my 2 (very respectful) cts.

FS

[Lisais mine]

heh. I think the answer is simple. if it bothers HIM, then it is an issue. if not, then it is fun.

My girl knows when to play by the (read : MY) rules- and when to be a brat. like she always says- " i can do what ever i want- if i want my ass beat."


I think every answer here is valid. but then again, my girl would have plenty of new stripes if she tried "rules lawyering"

[FiestySlave]

Thank you all very much for your honest and direct replies. It made me reflect on my behavior and better communicate my needs to my Master. I have written him several essays around this and feel that we are growing in the right direction. Please accept my heartfelt appreciation for the advice that each of you has taken the time to share. It has helped me to grow as a slave and has brought my Master and I closer together. We are both new, so we have a lot to learn, but I love him and want to please him.

Humble regards,

Fiesty

[Jennifer Williams]

but I love him and want to please him.

Keep that at the top of your mind and you'll figure out all the rest.

[WIPLASH]

i think you need a good old fashioned spank for been naughty and stop that shit you going to make that guy hate the game