keep your mind to yourself!

[Matin]

so to speak.

well here's the issue i'm struggling with right now. the more into being dom and sub we get the more i worry about my will smothering the woman i fell in love with.

in my mind always is the fact that she came fairly recently from the sort of relationship where the guy was 'dominant', but it wasn't sane or consensual.

how long does it take to get over that? ok i'm sorry, not 'get over', but to move far enough past the abuse to not hang a stigma on being submissive...

i feel contradictory in this. i want to own her completely, but not change her... i want her submission without losing her fire... i want to be her protector, her shield, and her rock with out us becoming so hopelessly codependent that we can't function.

and we've talked about it. i think a year in that we've done a pretty good job, but i just want to know if anyone else has any thoughts about interdependence in an evolving and deepening D/s relationship.

i know i ramble... it's hard to find the right words

[thenatural]

I have this same fear in my own relationship, except I am the sub. I want to submit my power, my being completely, and in the same breath I fear losing my spirit, the very thing that is my power. For me that's what makes it the edge, makes it fresh, let's it grow. I view the relationship as being alive, yes it is part of each of us and yet it is something of it's own making too. So it needs to be tended to, reflected upon it, guided. My personal thought on the matter is that so long as I am aware of this, so long as I pay attention and give care to the matters I fear happening, they will not happen for this very reason.

[kd6731]

i have been sexually abused pretty much most of my life in one way or another and all at diff times. i love my Master, my husband. I give him complete control over me and i love it. I have given up everything to him, but i am still me. i am still the same stubborn ass hard headed fighting little spirit thing imaginable. i dont think it is a question of completely giving urself up and maybe losing urself, more a question of what else do i want to do with this person? bcuz there are many things that we all have to try and find our place in. i love being the sub to my Master and we are always finding more things to do and more ways of finding that one thing that really gets the other going.

[Matin]

I have this same fear in my own relationship, except I am the sub. I want to submit my power, my being completely, and in the same breath I fear losing my spirit, the very thing that is my power. For me that's what makes it the edge, makes it fresh, let's it grow. I view the relationship as being alive, yes it is part of each of us and yet it is something of it's own making too. So it needs to be tended to, reflected upon it, guided. My personal thought on the matter is that so long as I am aware of this, so long as I pay attention and give care to the matters I fear happening, they will not happen for this very reason.

so hopefully our awareness of this problem is our protection from it...

but how much can i allow myself to dwell on it without it.. becoming true? self fulfilling prophecy.. (don't worry that was rhetorical ^.^)

[clipcrop]

so to speak.

in my mind always is the fact that she came fairly recently from the sort of relationship where the guy was 'dominant', but it wasn't sane or consensual.

If it wasn't sane and particularly if it wasn't consensual, it was NOT a D/s relationship. It was abuse, plain and simple. And possibly criminal.

[Matin]

If it wasn't sane and particularly if it wasn't consensual, it was NOT a D/s relationship. It was abuse, plain and simple. And possibly criminal.

*sigh* i know. to have someone so under thumb that they lose their sense of self, somewhat...

it wasn't D/s, we know that, i just want to know if anyone else has thought about how it can contain similar elements, just in a context of trust and love. and whether anyone else has found that codependency was ever a problem as they begin practising elements of D/s in everyday life.

[clipcrop]

*sigh* i know. to have someone so under thumb that they lose their sense of self, somewhat...

it wasn't D/s, we know that, i just want to know if anyone else has thought about how it can contain similar elements, just in a context of trust and love. and whether anyone else has found that codependency was ever a problem as they begin practising elements of D/s in everyday life.

I think it is simply a matter of helping to rebuild her trust. Start slowly, and give her lots of latitude.

[Matin]

trust is easy; i'm extremely competent and wholly devoted to her.

it's her fragile independence i want to shore up...

[moptop]

Yeah, Matin, this is one of those contradictions about D/s, isn't it... You want to support her, shore up as you say her independence; yet the very nature of D/s means that the sub tends more and more to become emotionally dependent on their Dom.

So, the tricky bit... is how to ensure that she becomes dependent on you FOR her independence! Gradually building up her confidence in herself.

Well, I would recommend staying away from any humiliation play. I would recommend guiding and assisting and supporting her in areas where she is weak (frightened, unsure of herself), actually helping her to be independent out there in the big bad world, but ensuring that at the same time, she retains the emotional link with you. That supports her, and allows you to have the sense of ownership. (I carefully avoid the word control, right there.)

By 'the emotional link' I mean symbols, to her, of your relationship; as simple as a day collar or other piece of jewellery; or little tasks like going out to do something independent, but wearing geisha balls or a tiny bit of cordage or specific clothing. This is not to play - it is just to mark the link between the two of you. It is not abuse, if she is gaining strength from your emotional presence.

And of course always, always, always congratulate her when she shows the spirit you are hoping to nurture!

Over time, her emotional dependence will still be there, but it will become gradually a more 'normal' sort, as her confidence in herself grows - every couple, BDSM or not, has a symbiotic relationship of need, to some extent. And as her confidence (in herself and in you) grows, her ability to give more of herself into your hands will grow, in a healthy manner.

[Matin]

thank you

[Diablo]

Communicate, communicate, communicate and then communicate some more.

Regardless of the nature of the D/s relationship there is still a partnership and support structure that goes both ways Doms have it a bit easier being able to overtly demonstrate that.

You love this woman you have chosen to be your sub and who has consented to being yours. Then love her, support her and guide her. Just keep her past in mind as you take her into your joint future.

For communications, as an example, set aside a joint activity or just a hour or so a day where she is free to speak with out repercussions. Reinforce that while she is Yours she is still the woman who you fell in love with and want to guide and protect.

Submission does not mean that the sub has to stop being them self.

[KitsToy]

I've no experience with nurturing someone emotionally abused in a D/s relationship, but I have been through a lot with close friends. I think in part, I feel the need to help, and so they find me.

It may seem contradictory to the D/s relationship, and it very well may be. When I've helped friends through their abuses, I'd given them control over everything we'd do and encourage them every step of the way. With each decision they'd make and each success they'd find, they'd become stronger and regain more of what was taken from them.

To apply this to your relationship as Dom and sub, I'm not entirely sure, as the line would be very grey. I'd think it would be most important to allow her the power to find herself once again. This may mean having a more vanilla relationship.. or perhaps the better wording would be D/s lite.. and allow her the power over herself that she needs in order to heal, all the while teaching her that D/s can be greatly rewarding and reinforcing that you are always there to protect her.

I think what I am trying to say is, being there to protect her and help her is wonderful, but you should be warey of protecting her from herself. If that makes sense. I'm sorry if it sounds nutty, though.. I didn't sleep last night, and I barely function without a nights rest.

Best wishes-
-Kit'sToy