You Down With OPP?

[Flaming_Redhead]

For those of you who are unfamiliar with the song by Naughty By Nature, OPP refers to other people's pussy, penis, or property. The song basically glorifies lack of respect for OPP. While this is not a new phenomenon, I've been somewhat offended by a couple I've known for years who began swinging almost 2 years ago.

I have nothing against swinging, per se. To each their own. I even helped this couple get started by being their first threesome partner. Shortly afterward, though, I met VoodooMan and informed them that I could no longer participate with them. They seemed to understand and didn't approach me sexually....until VoodooMan and I broke up.

While I was dating someone else, they approached me to engage in another threesome. I explained that I was only allowed to play with females, not that I'm bisexual or anything. They, again, seemed to understand. However, whilst topping the female, her husband kept trying to get me to do more. Since I knew the guy I was dating wasn't going to work out, I have to admit that I did a little more than I should have but firmly refused to have intercourse.

What, you ask, does all this have to do with anything? That encounter made me feel uncomfortable because the husband did not respect my boundaries. I later talked to the wife and let her know how I felt. She agreed that I shouldn't ever have to feel pressured or guilty, especially with them because they're my friends. I thought all was well. Then, VodooMan and I got back together. They already know he doesn't share, and they also know how I feel about him. The couple and I were hanging out at a local bar a couple of weekends ago. The wife and I were dancing when the husband came up behind me and began rubbing his crotch against my ass. It was fine...sort of...until I felt his hard-on.

Recently, the wife called to ask if I'd be interested in pole dancing at her husband's birthday party. I was floored. She kept going on about how sexy I am and what a wild and crazy girl I am, etc. I told her there was no way I could strip because VoodooMan wouldn't like it. She then suggested that maybe I could give her husband and his friend a lap dance instead. I told her that he probably wouldn't like that either. She asked if he would be coming to the party. I kind of got the feeling that she thought as long as he wasn't watching it would be okay. I told her I didn't know what our plans were for the weekend, which is the truth.

It's not just them, either. I was trying to shoot some pool at the bar when the guys I was playing with decided to grab my ass. I can't go out on the dance floor without someone humping my leg. I can't go to the dungeon without someone asking me to play. I can't go anywhere or do anything! It doesn't matter if I'm polite or rude. They all want to know where my man is.

The problem, if you can call it that, is that my relationship with VoodooMan is as yet undefined. In the beginning, I didn't mind these little annoyances so much. My sister is of the opinion that it's really none of his business what I do right now and that I don't have to tell him anything. However, the longer I'm with him, this feeling of inappropriateness gets stronger and stronger. I feel like people should respect the fact that I'm "with" someone irregardless of whether or not I have a ring on my finger or a collar on my neck. Of course, I'm perfectly aware that these symbols would more than likely be ignored by quite a few. It's my responsibility to protect his property when he is not with me, but what if I'm not technically his property?

I know I need to sit down with my friend and have a talk with her about boundaries, and I will....but I'm sick to death of dealing with people who have no respect for me as a person, much less as property. I've had people on another site approach me even though my profile says I'm under consideration. I guess I'm ranting because this is something that I've had to deal with for practically my entire adult life, but what kind of man wants a woman who is supposedly already with someone??? If he can "take" her from her man, she can just as easily be "taken" from him. What kind of woman wants a man who doesn't respect other people's boundaries or relationships??? If he doesn't respect you now, he's not liable to respect you once you're with him. Why does this mad pursuit of other people's property continue???

Okay, I'm done venting now.

[TwistedTails]

It's my responsibility to protect his property when he is not with me, but what if I'm not technically his property?

It seems clear that you want to be his property, you are just waiting for him to take possession. So you do have a responsibility to protect the property you offer him.

Okay, I'm done venting now.

I rather doubt that. But venting is good for the soul.

[BabyGirl12]

I'm really really sorry that this happened to you. I wish I could give you a hug and tell you everything'll be okay, but i can't do that, and I don't know that lol.

It might be a good idea to maybe take a break from everything for a while, and just take some time for yourself. Perhaps even with VoodooMan and define your relationship in a way that you both are happy with. Its always good to take a break from everything once and a while. Treat yourself to a spa day, get a massage, manicure, pedicure, or do whatever.

Very rarely I find people that are willing to respect you as a person. When you find those that do, hold on tight. Especially if you're not with your significant other, people rarely offer you the respect you deserve because you appear to them as single, and willing to be taken. Many are under the impression that because you're out, doing whatever it is that you're doing, you're on the market, ready for the taking. Its quite disgusting.

I hope things improve for you
And if you ever want to vent some more, feel free to IM/PM/Email me
All the best

[voxelectronica]

I've been there. I used to lie to one of my friends about being on my period whenever i came over because I know he will never do anything with a girl on her period. All I wanted was to hang out with my friend, play some video games, have a few drinks and not have sex and I had to lie to do that.

That's when I realized he wasn't a friend and I started treating him like the slut he was. He only got contacted from me when I wanted something. I started doing this to all my friends who acted this way. Sure that meant a lot less contact and I had to build some other friendships up but I wasn't put in those situations anymore.

[clipcrop]

I think Twisted Tails has summed it up nicely. When do you technically become his property? When he says so? Of when you feel it to be so?

This transcends BDSM. Even in the vanilla world, a person hoping to become an item with someone else will stop playing with others until the relationship either blooms or withers.

[DIXIE LASS]

MAWT___PAMF



Fact of Life: MAWT___PAMF or Men Are Willing To___Plow Another Man's Fields.
They generally don't give a RA (Rat's Ass) if it is OPP ( Other Person's Pussy). The solution is simple.
Stay away from this couple if you truly don't want the attention. You can't change human nature.
Same goes for the guys in the bar.

DIXIE

[devilishsub]

----Yeah you know me---

I'm surprised no one else has said this but --- Be happy you are so damn hot and desirable that all these people want you.

However, the downside is you have to put up with all this unwanted attention. It sucks, I know. I've developed a thick skin since men have been talking to my boobs instead of my face since I was 13.
Your lack of relationship definition with Voodoman shouldn't be an issue -- if you feel an emotional tie and feel the need to stay exclusive no one should be able to tell you otherwise. No one should make sexual advances without permission and you shouldn't need the oversight of a boyfriend/Master/whatever to keep the other men away. If you let them know you aren't interested/are seeing someone else they should respect that and leave it platonic. The only solution I've found is to stop hanging out with men who don't respect my (2yr) relationship. I've gotten "business calls" when men try to hit on me in public and I don't want to deal. Get your girl friends to help too, I've played a lesbian to get rid of one guy who was really irritating but nice enough for me to be nice about it. And if they are too persistent, a good kick in the nuts gets the message across use only as a last resort of course : )

[cadence]

I've been there, hell I'm still there now.
Since I've been allowed to play with others, I find it's now worse than it was before. I feel like I am not being respected in the manner I should be.

Anyone who wants to play must adhere to certain restrictions that are in place. While I can play with another male, it is preferred that I only play with females. A couple is fine, but there are rules in place that all of us must follow.

I find that the Dominants I knew well, are the ones who try and break every rule that is in place.
Some have submissives and others used to but are now single. They insist that I should be allowed to experience what they have to offer, and my Dominant is being an asshole because he has put restrictions in place.
I fail to understand how one can follow a strict code and then break it so easily with someone elses' property.
They refuse to follow rules and only want to do what they want to.
I find that to be pathetic and rude.

[Lisais mine]

guess i could join the rant on this issue- but i am only going to say one thing. if you feel like something is innapropriate, then it is. if you feel like you are his, then you are. no ring or collar or decalaration of love is going to make that or break that commitment. i feel like you are doing the right thing by being dedicated to this guy, if you feel so strongly (and that is said without knowing any other factors) VoodoMan sounds like a lucky man. the couple is way overstepping. get away from them.

[Flaming_Redhead]

It seems clear that you want to be his property, you are just waiting for him to take possession. So you do have a responsibility to protect the property you offer him.

Yes, I would like that very much. When we got back together, I wanted everything to go back to the way it was before, just like the breakup never happened. I wasn't naive enough to believe that it would, though, and I was right. It's been an uneasy truce with me waiting for him to give me a sign that he's ready to proceed. Since I wasn't sure where this was going, I initially felt like I should at least check in with him before I do anything, mainly to test the waters, but it was made perfectly clear that he was not ready to assume any role other than friend. After I understood this, I felt under no obligation whatsoever to do anything different than what I normally do. However, as the months have gone by, there have been signs....which is why I'm now feeling a responsibility to put a screeching halt to all this crap.

Very rarely I find people that are willing to respect you as a person. When you find those that do, hold on tight. Especially if you're not with your significant other, people rarely offer you the respect you deserve because you appear to them as single, and willing to be taken. Many are under the impression that because you're out, doing whatever it is that you're doing, you're on the market, ready for the taking. Its quite disgusting.

That is so true.

That's when I realized he wasn't a friend and I started treating him like the slut he was.

I'm seriously considering not hanging out with this couple anymore. I shouldn't have to tell them more than once to back off, and now I don't trust them. When you start having an urge to make excuses, it's not a good thing. Rather than lie, though, I'll tell them exactly what the reason is.

When do you technically become his property? When he says so? Of when you feel it to be so?

This transcends BDSM. Even in the vanilla world, a person hoping to become an item with someone else will stop playing with others until the relationship either blooms or withers.

Basically, when he says so works for me. I can't be his if he doesn't want me, right? I wasn't going to stop living my life in the hopes that it might be more when he wasn't even sure if it would be, but recent developments have led me to believe that this will not remain casual much longer. Therefore, I am now ready to make any necessary adjustments in my behavior.

[SIZE="3"][B]
Stay away from this couple if you truly don't want the attention. You can't change human nature.
Same goes for the guys in the bar.

DIXIE

They were perfectly well behaved before. I'm not sure why their behavior has changed and become more aggressive, except that maybe they consider me "single," but if they can't behave, we just won't hang out. As for the guys in the bar, it's to be expected to an extent. Hell, I'd be kinda disappointed if I didn't get *any* attention since I'm an attention whore. *sigh* The trick is to not let it ruin an otherwise fun evening, and it usually doesn't....but enough is enough when a guy has to be taken home by his friend because he's creeped out every girl in the bar! *shudders*

I've played a lesbian to get rid of one guy who was really irritating but nice enough for me to be nice about it. And if they are too persistent, a good kick in the nuts gets the message across use only as a last resort of course : )

I've done that, too! *lol* Since I don't go out of my way to start bar fights, I try to be nice....but there was that one time I bit a guy in the crotch. *eg*

Since I've been allowed to play with others, I find it's now worse than it was before. I feel like I am not being respected in the manner I should be.

They refuse to follow rules and only want to do what they want to.
I find that to be pathetic and rude.

Yes, I know! It was so much better when I just wasn't allowed. I always felt like I was missing out on all the fun, though. Pppfffttt!

if you feel like something is innapropriate, then it is. if you feel like you are his, then you are. no ring or collar or decalaration of love is going to make that or break that commitment. i feel like you are doing the right thing by being dedicated to this guy, if you feel so strongly (and that is said without knowing any other factors) VoodoMan sounds like a lucky man. the couple is way overstepping. get away from them.

I sort of agree, but the thing is...I need that from him. Otherwise, I'm just an obsessed "fatal attraction" kinda girl. *lol* On the other hand, he may be waiting for me to make my own changes and show him I'm ready. Hmm....but it's the subtle hints from him that are making me want to be more dedicated. No matter...they are definitely out of line. I don't need "friends" causing trouble.

[voxelectronica]

honestly it sounds like you've gotten this all under control now.

[tessa]

While I was dating someone else, they approached me to engage in another threesome. I explained that I was only allowed to play with females, not that I'm bisexual or anything. They, again, seemed to understand. However, whilst topping the female, her husband kept trying to get me to do more. Since I knew the guy I was dating wasn't going to work out, I have to admit that I did a little more than I should have but firmly refused to have intercourse.

What, you ask, does all this have to do with anything? That encounter made me feel uncomfortable because the husband did not respect my boundaries.

You didn't respect your own boundaries. Why did you expect him to?

I later talked to the wife and let her know how I felt. She agreed that I shouldn't ever have to feel pressured or guilty, especially with them because they're my friends. I thought all was well. Then, VodooMan and I got back together. They already know he doesn't share, and they also know how I feel about him. The couple and I were hanging out at a local bar a couple of weekends ago. The wife and I were dancing when the husband came up behind me and began rubbing his crotch against my ass. It was fine...sort of...until I felt his hard-on.

So is it fine for him to rub up against you while you dance in a sexually explicit nature with his wife, just so long as he doesn't get a hard-on?

And yet you wonder why he's not "down with OPP"?

Recently, the wife called to ask if I'd be interested in pole dancing at her husband's birthday party. I was floored.

Why? You've repeatedly put yourself in the position of being seen by them in this "wild and crazy girl" light. In another thread, you said that pole dancing is "exactly like something" you could imagine doing. Why are you expecting them to view you differently when you aren't doing so for yourself?

She kept going on about how sexy I am and what a wild and crazy girl I am, etc. I told her there was no way I could strip because VoodooMan wouldn't like it. She then suggested that maybe I could give her husband and his friend a lap dance instead. I told her that he probably wouldn't like that either. She asked if he would be coming to the party. I kind of got the feeling that she thought as long as he wasn't watching it would be okay.

Try seeing it from their perspective. You've played with them on more than one occasion now. You hang out with them in sexually-rich environments. You present yourself to them as a sexually adventurous being. They need time to un-learn what you've taught them previously. You've just started re-teaching them about you. Be consistent with them in what you want them to now know of you, and give them some time to adjust. It's not easy to just all of the sudden change your thoughts and ideas and beliefs, especially if one is receiving mixed messages.

It's not just them, either. I was trying to shoot some pool at the bar when the guys I was playing with decided to grab my ass. I can't go out on the dance floor without someone humping my leg. I can't go to the dungeon without someone asking me to play. I can't go anywhere or do anything! It doesn't matter if I'm polite or rude. They all want to know where my man is. I've had people on another site approach me even though my profile says I'm under consideration. I'm sick to death of dealing with people who have no respect for me as a person, much less as property.

Your environment is a bar or a BDSM play dungeon or a BDSM hook-up site, where sexual inhibitions go right out the window upon approaching such places, you're there for all intents and purposes without "your man", and you're surprised that others view you in a sexual light?? You, darling woman, are not that naive. Besides, looking for respect in a bar, et all, is like looking for peace in the Middle East...it ain't so easily found.

In the beginning, I didn't mind these little annoyances so much. My sister is of the opinion that it's really none of his business what I do right now and that I don't have to tell him anything. However, the longer I'm with him, this feeling of inappropriateness gets stronger and stronger. I feel like people should respect the fact that I'm "with" someone irregardless of whether or not I have a ring on my finger or a collar on my neck.

Find and do what feels right and true and respectful for you, and others will follow your example. (And not going unattended to bars might help, too. Just a thought.)

Why does this mad pursuit of other people's property continue???

Because it can. Simple as that.

[Flaming_Redhead]

You didn't respect your own boundaries. Why did you expect him to?

That's a good question and one not easily answered. I had every intention of playing by the rules, but the fact of the matter is that I let myself be pressured into doing something I knew was "wrong." It looks like old habits die hard. At least I didn't let it go "too far," although that's not entirely true because crossing any line is too far.

So is it fine for him to rub up against you while you dance in a sexually explicit nature with his wife, just so long as he doesn't get a hard-on?

And yet you wonder why he's not "down with OPP"?

Um...we were dancing...which is nothing different and nothing new. He's never done that....

Why? You've repeatedly put yourself in the position of being seen by them in this "wild and crazy girl" light. In another thread, you said that pole dancing is "exactly like something" you could imagine doing. Why are you expecting them to view you differently when you aren't doing so for yourself?

*sigh* The problem, I guess, is that this girl justs wants to have fun, but people keep taking her seriously.

Try seeing it from their perspective. You've played with them on more than one occasion now. You hang out with them in sexually-rich environments. You present yourself to them as a sexually adventurous being. They need time to un-learn what you've taught them previously. You've just started re-teaching them about you. Be consistent with them in what you want them to now know of you, and give them some time to adjust. It's not easy to just all of the sudden change your thoughts and ideas and beliefs, especially if one is receiving mixed messages.

I know I haven't exactly been consistent, and that's because life isn't consistent. I went from not being allowed to play, to being allowed on a limited basis, to not being allowed. Try to keep up people!!! *lol* I say that, but I can't even keep up with myself.

Your environment is a bar or a BDSM play dungeon or a BDSM hook-up site, where sexual inhibitions go right out the window upon approaching such places, you're there for all intents and purposes without "your man", and you're surprised that others view you in a sexual light?? You, darling woman, are not that naive. Besides, looking for respect in a bar, et all, is like looking for peace in the Middle East...it ain't so easily found.

No, I'm not that naive, but I am hard-headed enough to believe that I have every right to go where I want to go, with or without an escort, because this is not the Middle Ages. In all actuality, the most "sexually charged" place I frequent is also the safest and most respectful. I could run around stark naked and not be touched.

Find and do what feels right and true and respectful for you, and others will follow your example. (And not going unattended to bars might help, too. Just a thought.)

On the one hand, you're telling me to do what feels right to me, but in the very same breath, you're telling me to do what society thinks proper young ladies should do. I know you can't have your cake and eat it, too. I can't be me and expect respect, but at least I'm having a damn good time! Mostly....

[Arria]

@ FlamingRedhead: I do not think that tessa was trying to force medieval behaviour rules unto you by saying " (And not going unattended to bars might help, too.)"

I think she just tried to point out to you how men function. And a woman without an escort is to most men someone approachable.
(There are men who have brains and experience enough to judge if a woman wants to be approached, or wants to be approached by THEM, but those are rare.)

See it like this - a woman who is seeking will dress up and go out.
But also, a woman who just wants to have a nice evening out (no matter if she is in a relationship or not!) on herself/with friends, will also dress up and go out.
Most men I met are NOT able to tell the difference.

tessa does have a point, after all. While I was single and wanted to go out WITHOUT the intent of finding a guy, I usually took my best gay friend along. This gave me the opportunity to dress up like hell without being bothered by other men.

You can either put up with come-ons, or stay home, or take someone along who appears like your boyfriend. While this might not be valid for going to Starbucks or whatever, it certainly applies to locations where you are dressed in a suggestive way, and where people meet in a sexual context.

Just my 2 cents.

[caligirl{Rob}]

Is it OPP if the P doesn't know themselves if they are the OP's? After making more than my share of my own misjudgements I have come to the realization that I am responsible for my own actions and my own reactions. If I put myself out there and get a reaction I don't like, my only control is over myself. I have to make my own decisions on how to proceed, and not expect others to act or react as I expect. I have no control over their feelings or decisions. I can proceed and accept the reaction I get, I can remove myself from the situation, or change my own actions. If someone wants to be preceived as someone else's property and wants that respected, then make that clear and make all actions clear that this is the case. If the OPP acts ambiguous or inconsistent in actions there should not be shock or surprise or even disappointment in similar reactions...jmo

[Flaming_Redhead]

See it like this - a woman who is seeking will dress up and go out.
But also, a woman who just wants to have a nice evening out (no matter if she is in a relationship or not!) on herself/with friends, will also dress up and go out.
Most men I met are NOT able to tell the difference.

*dies laughing* That is SO true!

I know she has a point, but I'm stubborn as hell. I don't have any platonic guy friends or gay friends. I'm on my own. The wife tells people I'm her girlfriend in an attempt to keep the wolves at bay. Sometimes it backfires. *lol* I've also taken to hanging out with the bouncer to avoid people.

I know part of it *is* my fault because I'm a flirt and an attention whore (and manic-depressive), so I'm angry at myself for my lack of control and judgment when I'm out partying. I just wanna blow off steam...*pouty pout* But I know I'm a bit over the top. And I'm angry at friends and guys for not being more in control of themselves which really isn't fair. AND I'm angry at VoodooMan for not taking control of me. I'll probably go out this weekend, so I'm going to *try* to tone it down and see what happens. *sigh*

[tessa]

Um...we were dancing...which is nothing different and nothing new. He's never done that....

Um...I've seen you dance..."nothing different" ??? That's the understatement of the ages.

Ok, so he's never rubbed up on you on the dance floor before. Seems now the man has the idea that it's okay to do it with you, maybe because you've been up close and personal with him a time or three at this point? And due to recent events with the three of you, maybe because he's feeling more...comfortable with you in a sexual framework, and he's thinking it's appropriate to express his sexual feelings towards you in such a way. But you don't want his attention in that way anymore, right? So tell him. Make it clear to him what your expectations are and follow through with meaning what you say. If he then crosses the line, it will be all on him, and you can nail his ass to the wall, all without missing a beat of that funky music.

*sigh* The problem, I guess, is that this girl justs wants to have fun, but people keep taking her seriously.

Hold up. In this thread, you are venting about not getting the respect you want. In that way you want to be taken seriously, right? Or have I misread you?

Have your fun. A girl's gotta have it, after all. What I hope you'll realize is that within your fun, other people are involved-people with their own feelings and ideas and responses. And because you aren't isolated in your fun, nor sure about if you want to be taken seriously or not, you will get responses you don't appreciate.

So, which is it? Serious about respect or no?

I know I haven't exactly been consistent, and that's because life isn't consistent. I went from not being allowed to play, to being allowed on a limited basis, to not being allowed. Try to keep up people!!! *lol* I say that, but I can't even keep up with myself.

You *lol*, but I suspect you actually mean this on some level. What I hear from you with this statement of yours is that depending on what you believe the status of your relationship to be at the moment, you expect others to be unresponsive ('respectful' as you term it) towards you if the relationship is in high gear, yet ready to play and have fun with you if it's in neutral or dead stopped. Yeah, trying to "keep up" with that will prove difficult on the best of days, so expecting a never-changing attitude from others may be a bit unrealistic for a while yet.

No, I'm not that naive, but I am hard-headed enough to believe that I have every right to go where I want to go, with or without an escort, because this is not the Middle Ages. In all actuality, the most "sexually charged" place I frequent is also the safest and most respectful. I could run around stark naked and not be touched.

True that. However, you said-

"I can't go to the dungeon without someone asking me to play."

You said that in your original rant. You included the dungeon scene as part of the problem, so I did the same in my response to you.

About the other places, if you honestly believe that your cute self bending over a pool table while stroking that big stick in and out of your hands doesn't ramp up the "sexually charged" atmosphere of a place filled with people loaded up on inhibition-crushing solutions, "blind denial" must be your newest hobby.

All that said, my point was missed. I was addressing the fact that maybe you're getting these unwanted responses because of the nature of the places you're going, not whether you have the right to be there. Yes, you have every right to go anywhere you want and do anything you want. However, there are consequences to be had from doing such. In this case, the consequences are those people you're bitching about not respecting you and your relationship. But guess what? They also have every right. That right is not yours alone to have.

On the one hand, you're telling me to do what feels right to me, but in the very same breath, you're telling me to do what society thinks proper young ladies should do.

This is not at all what I meant. In regards to what I said about doing what's right and true, I was referencing what your sister said to you about it not being VM's business what you do and where you go. You have to decide what is and isn't true for you, not your sister. As for my ideas about what should and shouldn't be done, fuck what society thinks about "proper". I don't hold store by such nonsense. I thought you knew that about me.

I'll say it again. Seek to find your truth and live it in a way that makes it all very clear to others. It may take time, but in doing so, you may garner the respect you seek. Figure out what will work best for you and your relationship. Now if that's playing pool at a bar full of inebriated, raging manly hormones and...umm, "dancing" with your friend in front of her husband, then have at it. Just don't expect to have those behaviors help your cause to gain respect.

I can't be me and expect respect, but at least I'm having a damn good time! Mostly....

After questioning and giving this idea so much thought, now you're gonna indulge in a pity party?? What a cop out. You're capable of more and you know it!

Why can't you be you and expect respect? Why would you even allow yourself to have such an atrocious thought to begin with?? It's a real disservice you're heaping on yourself for even having that lame thought.

You want to know why you aren't getting the respect you want? Take a look at what you just said right up there and you'll have your crystal clear answer.

Try demanding respect from yourself first. You're very much worth the investment. Once you've gained it within, then you can seek and find it elsewhere.

Again, you're worth it.

Seriously.

[tessa]

I know she has a point, but I'm stubborn as hell.

You can be stubborn or you can find your way to a better place. It's your choice. You sabotage yourself and don't seem to care how much you hurt yourself in the doing of it. Well, I do care, which is why I won't blow smoke just to make you feel better.

I know part of it *is* my fault because I'm a flirt and an attention whore

These behaviors account for more than just part of the fault. Over and over, you're teaching people how to deal with you. You aren't doing yourself any favors in the way you're going about it.

(and manic-depressive),

So get some help. And before you make excuses about time and money and such, there is help available if you really want it. I'll help you find it if you want me to.

I'm angry at myself for my lack of control and judgment when I'm out partying. I just wanna blow off steam...*pouty pout* But I know I'm a bit over the top.

The key to changing anything is in the knowing.

And I'm angry at friends and guys for not being more in control of themselves which really isn't fair.

It's not fair at all. You don't control yourself, so why are you expecting them to control themselves?

AND I'm angry at VoodooMan for not taking control of me.

How about you get in control of yourself and stop expecting another to do it for you!


You are SO much more than you give yourself credit for. I'm angry at your continued refusal to give yourself even half a freaking chance.

[thir]

HI
Puuhh.
I think you have several different issues here.

1) the relationship with your friends.
2 Do you say 'no' so there is no doubt?
3) the general feeling of getting bothered because you are not with a man.

To take 1 and 2, I get the feeling that you sometimes go further than you would like, but now that the relationship with VM is developing again you want your friends to respect that this is the case, and that you are off limit.

Would it help to be very very clear on this now?? After all they have been able to lure you before, and so might well need a blunt message about where you are right now.

As for 3, I think many women would agree that this is a very general problem!!

Still I see different situations: If you are in a dungeon, I do not think it odd or wrong that people ask you to play. I mean, that is what it is for, right?
But pressing against you on the dance floor without an invitation, or grapping at the pool table, that is so tiresome!!

All I can say is a good, pointed elbow accompanied by 'scram' has helped me the most, if people cannot understand a polite 'no thanks'.

The only place I have almost never encountered this rude behaviour is on bdsm camps ;-)) People learn how to behave there..

[COLOR="Red"]
While I was dating someone else, they approached me to engage in another threesome. I explained that I was only allowed to play with females, not that I'm bisexual or anything. They, again, seemed to understand. However, whilst topping the female, her husband kept trying to get me to do more. Since I knew the guy I was dating wasn't going to work out, I have to admit that I did a little more than I should have but firmly refused to have intercourse.

Then, VodooMan and I got back together. They already know he doesn't share, and they also know how I feel about him. the husband came up behind me and began rubbing his crotch against my ass. It was fine...sort of...until I felt his hard-on.

[quote}Recently, the wife called to ask if I'd be interested in pole dancing at her husband's birthday party. I was floored. I told her I didn't know what our plans were for the weekend, which is the truth. [/quote]

It's not just them, either. I was trying to shoot some pool at the bar when the guys I was playing with decided to grab my ass. I can't go out on the dance floor without someone humping my leg.

I can't go to the dungeon without someone asking me to play. I can't go anywhere or do anything! It doesn't matter if I'm polite or rude. They all want to know where my man is.

The problem, if you can call it that, is that my relationship with VoodooMan is as yet undefined. In the beginning, I didn't mind these little annoyances so much. My sister is of the opinion that it's really none of his business what I do right now and that I don't have to tell him anything. However, the longer I'm with him, this feeling of inappropriateness gets stronger and stronger.

I feel like people should respect the fact that I'm "with" someone irregardless of whether or not I have a ring on my finger or a collar on my neck. Of course, I'm perfectly aware that these symbols would more than likely be ignored by quite a few. It's my responsibility to protect his property when he is not with me, but what if I'm not technically his property?

[Flaming_Redhead]

Um...I've seen you dance..."nothing different" ??? That's the understatement of the ages.

LMAO!

Seems now the man has the idea that it's okay to do it with you, maybe because you've been up close and personal with him a time or three at this point? But you don't want his attention in that way anymore, right? So tell him. Make it clear to him what your expectations are and follow through with meaning what you say. If he then crosses the line, it will be all on him, and you can nail his ass to the wall, all without missing a beat of that funky music.

Good point.

Hold up. In this thread, you are venting about not getting the respect you want. In that way you want to be taken seriously, right? Or have I misread you?

Have your fun. A girl's gotta have it, after all. What I hope you'll realize is that within your fun, other people are involved-people with their own feelings and ideas and responses. And because you aren't isolated in your fun, nor sure about if you want to be taken seriously or not, you will get responses you don't appreciate.

So, which is it? Serious about respect or no?

What I meant was that when I'm just out for shits and giggles, people take it seriously, but when I want to be taken seriously, I might as well be talking to the wall for all the good it does. I do tend to live in my own twisted little world and forget that what I do has any effect outside of it, though.

About the other places, if you honestly believe that your cute self bending over a pool table while stroking that big stick in and out of your hands doesn't ramp up the "sexually charged" atmosphere of a place filled with people loaded up on inhibition-crushing solutions, "blind denial" must be your newest hobby.

LMAO! Umm....denial isn't just a river in Egypt, apparently.

All that said, my point was missed. I was addressing the fact that maybe you're getting these unwanted responses because of the nature of the places you're going, not whether you have the right to be there. Yes, you have every right to go anywhere you want and do anything you want. However, there are consequences to be had from doing such. In this case, the consequences are those people you're bitching about not respecting you and your relationship. But guess what? They also have every right. That right is not yours alone to have.

As many years as I've been going out, I haven't noticed it being a problem before. I supposed I've lived a somewhat sheltered life in that regard since the only thing that has changed is the people I go out with, i.e. my friend from high school is a much better cock blocker than the current couple....but then again....they're swingers....so why would they be running interference? *lol*

This is not at all what I meant. In regards to what I said about doing what's right and true, I was referencing what your sister said to you about it not being VM's business what you do and where you go. You have to decide what is and isn't true for you, not your sister. As for my ideas about what should and shouldn't be done, fuck what society thinks about "proper". I don't hold store by such nonsense. I thought you knew that about me.

I'll say it again. Seek to find your truth and live it in a way that makes it all very clear to others. It may take time, but in doing so, you may garner the respect you seek. Figure out what will work best for you and your relationship. Now if that's playing pool at a bar full of inebriated, raging manly hormones and...umm, "dancing" with your friend in front of her husband, then have at it. Just don't expect to have those behaviors help your cause to gain respect.

There's the rub. My truth may not be the absolute truth, in which case I'm lying to myself. I have to admit I feel no great urge to sit at home and stew in my own juices, especially after I was told I needed to get a life. Well, I went out and got one, and if he doesn't like it....so be it....but I'll be damned if I'm gonna sit around waiting for him to spend a weekend with me.

After questioning and giving this idea so much thought, now you're gonna indulge in a pity party?? What a cop out. You're capable of more and you know it!

Why can't you be you and expect respect? Why would you even allow yourself to have such an atrocious thought to begin with?? It's a real disservice you're heaping on yourself for even having that lame thought.

You want to know why you aren't getting the respect you want? Take a look at what you just said right up there and you'll have your crystal clear answer.

Try demanding respect from yourself first. You're very much worth the investment. Once you've gained it within, then you can seek and find it elsewhere.

Again, you're worth it.

Seriously.

*sigh* Yes, I was having a "moment." If you don't like that mood, wait 5 minutes and get back to me. *lol*

You can be stubborn or you can find your way to a better place. It's your choice. You sabotage yourself and don't seem to care how much you hurt yourself in the doing of it. Well, I do care, which is why I won't blow smoke just to make you feel better.

Well, I *am* a masochist. *snickers*

These behaviors account for more than just part of the fault. Over and over, you're teaching people how to deal with you. You aren't doing yourself any favors in the way you're going about it.

Yes, I realize that. *frowns*

It's not fair at all. You don't control yourself, so why are you expecting them to control themselves?

I have no idea. Maybe because from the age of 3 people are taught not to put their hands on someone else? *shrugs*

How about you get in control of yourself and stop expecting another to do it for you!

Hmm...that's interesting. I had almost this same thought occur to me this afternoon. Your brain just got there quicker. That's why I prefer thinking "out loud." The irony is that once I get in control *someone* will finally decide he wants to take it. Pppfffffttttt!

You are SO much more than you give yourself credit for. I'm angry at your continued refusal to give yourself even half a freaking chance.

Awwwwwww! You're so sweet! I love you, too.

[tessa]

Awwwwwww! You're so sweet! I love you, too.

And there goes the angry. ~super big boobie squish hug~

I know I went too far off the deep end. ~sighs~ I just need you to see that you really, really, really are worth it.

[Flaming_Redhead]

OOOOOOO Gotta love squishing boobies! *huggles*

It's a heated pool. *smiles* Besides, I'm the one who fell off into the deep end. You're just the lifeguard. *cof cof* Can I get some mouth to mouth???

[tessa]

It's a heated pool. *smiles* Besides, I'm the one who fell off into the deep end. You're just the lifeguard. *cof cof* Can I get some mouth to mouth???

(not exactly, but close)