Would You Believe Police say Austrian man raped daughter, fathered 6 children--merged

[mkemse]

By VERONIKA OLEKSYN, Associated Press Writer
48 minutes ago

Police say Austrian man raped daughter, fathered 6 children
VIENNA, Austria - A woman who went missing in 1984 was found by police over the weekend and told investigators that she had been held by her father in a cellar, where she was repeatedly raped and gave birth to at least six children, police said Sunday.

Authorities said that the father may have told acquaintances and relatives that his daughter had joined a cult and disappeared.

Franz Polzer, head of the Lower Austrian Bureau of Criminal Affairs, told reporters that the father, identified as Josef F., had been taken into custody. Police said Josef and his wife had been raising three of their daughter's children. The other three grew up in the cellar.

"We are being confronted with an unfathomable crime," Interior Minister Guenther Platter said.

The case unfolded after a gravely ill teenager was taken around April 19 to a hospital in the town of Amstetten, where she was found unconscious in the building where her grandparents live, police said. Told that the sick 19-year-old's mother was missing, authorities publicly appealed for her to come forward.

Officers received a tip and picked up the mother near the hospital on Saturday, police said.

The mother, whom authorities identified as Elisabeth F., told officers that she had just been released after two decades of captivity at the hands of her father. She said that on Aug. 28, 1984 her father had sedated her, handcuffed her and locked her in a room in the cellar of the family's apartment building.

In an interview with AP Television News, Polzer said that Josef F. had given police a code to unlock a hidden door, revealing the area where Elisabeth and the children had been held.

It had "several" rooms, an uneven floor and a "very narrow" hallway, Polzer said, adding that the door was "very small," and that one had to bend one's head to get through.

"Everything is very, very narrow and the victim herself ... told us that this was being continually enlarged over the years," Polzer said.

The area also contained sanitary facilities and "small hot plates" for cooking, Polzer said.

On its Web site, ORF reported that the rooms were at most 5.6 feet high and that the area had a TV.

The area also included a "padded cell," Hans-Heinz Lenze, a senior Amstetten district official, said in remarks broadcast late Sunday.

Elisabeth said her father had been sexually abusing her since she was 11. According to the police statement, Elisabeth said that she and her children got food and clothing only from her father and her mother, Rosemarie, had not been involved.

Police said Elisabeth F. appeared "greatly disturbed" during questioning and agreed to talk only after authorities assured her she would no longer have to have contact with her father and that her children would be cared for.

Police said Josef, 73, and Rosemarie had raised three of Elisabeth's children in their apartment in a two-story building in Amstetten, a small town about 80 miles west of Vienna.

Josef and Rosemarie registered the children with authorities, saying that they had found them outside their home in 1993, 1994 and 1997, at least one with a note from Elisabeth saying she could not care for the child.

The three other children apparently remained in the cellar with Elisabeth, police said.

"Elisabeth F. taught them how to speak," Polzer was quoted as saying by the Austria Press Agency.

Police said the sick 19-year-old, Kerstin, had been found unconscious on April 19 in the apartment building, with a handwritten note purportedly signed by Elisabeth, asking that she be given care.

After Kerstin was hospitalized, police said, Josef F. freed Elisabeth and the two remaining children from the cellar and told his wife that their daughter and the children had come back to them.

The Austria Press Agency reported that, in addition to Kerstin, three of the children are boys and two are girls, the youngest of whom is 5.

All are in psychiatric care, along with Elisabeth and Rosemarie, police said. DNA tests are expected to determine whether Josef F. is the father.

Police cited Elisabeth as saying that she gave birth to twins in 1996 but one died several days later because it was not properly cared for, according to police, who said they are investigating.

Josef, the alleged abuser, then apparently removed the corpse from the cellar and burned it, the police statement said. It was not immediately clear if the twin who allegedly died was included in the police total of six children.

Sunday's developments are reminiscent of the case of Natascha Kampusch, which shocked Austrians less than two years ago.

Kampusch was 10 years old when she was kidnapped in Vienna on her way to school in March 1998. She was held for the next 8 1/2 years by Wolfgang Priklopil, who largely confined her to a tiny underground dungeon in his home in a quiet Vienna suburb. Priklopil threw himself in front of a train train just hours after Kampusch's dramatic escape on Aug. 23, 2006

[gagged_Louise]

If this is near true - and it seems to be - it's the most gruesome incest and abuse story I've ever heard of. Words fail me:

http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/worl...-Daughter.html

The man locked up his own daughter in a cleverly hidden underground cellar - or rather a bunker with several rooms - and raped her many times over a period of a quarter of a century; he had reported her gone missing in 1984. She bore her father six children, three of whom were also kept prisoners down there (did he rape one or two of them as well?) The entry ot this underground place was so well hidden the police didn't even find it, despite searching doggedly for it, until the old man showed them.

*pukes*

[mkemse]

If this is near true - and it seems to be - it's the most gruesome incest and abuse story I've ever heard of. Words fail me:

http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/worl...-Daughter.html

The man locked up his own daughter in a cleverly hidden underground cellar - or rather a bunker with several rooms - and raped her many times over a period of a quarter of a century; he had reported her gone missing in 1984. She bore her father six children, three of whom were also kept prisoners down there (did he rape one or two of them as well?) The entry ot this underground place was so well hidden the police didn't even find it, despite searching doggedly for it, until the old man showed them.

*pukes*

Same post as mine LOL

[Tufty]

If this is near true - and it seems to be - it's the most gruesome incest and abuse story I've ever heard of. Words fail me:

I sat and watched the report on the News last night...and just couldn't think of anything to say.

[mkemse]

I sat and watched the report on the News last night...and just couldn't think of anything to say.

It is one of those things that speak for itself, outragous is not even a good word to use, unbelievabled maybe

[Warbaby1943]

It is one of those things that speak for itself, outragous is not even a good word to use, unbelievabled maybe

Unbelievable for sure. Most of us can't even begin to imagine how anything like this could even be possible. They should hang the fucker by his nuts until he is dead.

[Thorne]

Unbelievable for sure. Most of us can't even begin to imagine how anything like this could even be possible. They should hang the fucker by his nuts until he is dead.

Nah. Too easy on him. Lock him up for life in a deep, dark cell with nobody for company except Big Bubba Butt Fucker. Give him a taste of his own medicine.

[gagged_Louise]

Nah. Too easy on him. Lock him up for life in a deep, dark cell with nobody for company except Big Bubba Butt Fucker. Give him a taste of his own medicine.

He's 73 years old already. I don't think there is any punishment you could pick that would be practicable to really fit the scale of the crime in this case, except possibly hung, burnt and quartered (btw I don't support capital punishment though it's dead easy to understand why it would feel ight here). But surely somebody must have kown or had a snifff of this? How could he carry out all of this - building a locked bunker below his house, going down to see his "extra kids" more or less regularly, and dealing with a couple of childbriths - without anyone geting involved from the outside world or guessing there was something afoot??

This is like out of a Michael Haneke movie (guess it's no accident that he's from Austria, his films are about just this kind of "I didn't see nothing of those dreadful things" attitude).

[Venom]

After twenty-four years somebody just HAS to know something - same with Natascha Kampusch. On the other hand: no normal person - I hope I include us - even considers that something that monstrous is happening right now next door...

[mkemse]

Nah. Too easy on him. Lock him up for life in a deep, dark cell with nobody for company except Big Bubba Butt Fucker. Give him a taste of his own medicine.

Good idea

[mkemse]

He's 73 years old already. I don't think there is any punishment you could pick that would be practicable to really fit the scale of the crime in this case, except possibly hung, burnt and quartered (btw I don't support capital punishment though it's dead easy to understand why it would feel ight here). But surely somebody must have kown or had a snifff of this? How could he carry out all of this - building a locked bunker below his house, going down to see his "extra kids" more or less regularly, and dealing with a couple of childbriths - without anyone geting involved from the outside world or guessing there was something afoot??

His wife helped deliver the babie, rembmer I send that he told neigbhors that his daughter had left home and then asked to come back 24 years later ... Yea Right, anyone want to buy the bridge I own on the outskirts of Tempe Arizona??

[mkemse]

An update to this, Australian Police said if this man is tried and found giuty of the crime the most he can serve under their laws is 15 years, nice system there huh??

[Venom]

A parking offender gets more...

[mkemse]

i know i got that info off of yahoo news, UNBELEVIABLE the whole story, 15 years is way to knid fir him and they said the 15 years is NOT based on thefact that he is 71 but simply their law

Wonder how long you get for coke posssesion??

[Venom]

In my country we have preventive detention. A psycho does his ten or fifteen years, but if is decided that he is a menace for others, he stays in jail.

[gagged_Louise]

Let's not get into a debate on capital punishment and lifetime jail here. I really don't think there's any punishment that would have been sure to avert him from doing these evil acts before he went to work. If you do this kind of atrocity you're somehow beyond rational thinking, even rational fear.

[Venom]

I'm not into dreaming of the Good Ol' Times, but some decades ago, these crimes didn't happen so often. Sure, some hadn't been detected or solved, or people didn't get the news with much less TV and no Internet. And Josef F started twenty-four years ago, but in the last years the number of these crimes literally exploded.

[Alex Bragi]

You know what troubles me most about this? I worry that's it's more than likely not an isolated case.

[mkemse]

You know what troubles me most about this? I worry that's it's more than likely not an isolated case.

I agree with you Alex 100%, he simply got caught

[Razor7826]

An update to this, Australian Police said if this man is tried and found giuty of the crime the most he can serve under their laws is 15 years, nice system there huh??

Perhaps for the single harshest crime, but what about multiple charges being brought against him?

And, he's 74 years old. Odds are he won't be around in 15.

[Razor7826]

I'm not into dreaming of the Good Ol' Times, but some decades ago, these crimes didn't happen so often. Sure, some hadn't been detected or solved, or people didn't get the news with much less TV and no Internet. And Josef F started twenty-four years ago, but in the last years the number of these crimes literally exploded.

They probably did happen as frequently per population. However, increased population has likely increased the frequency of horror stories relative to time. Also, many stories like this would have never escaped their region without internet and television.

[mkemse]

Perhaps for the single harshest crime, but what about multiple charges being brought against him?

And, he's 74 years old. Odds are he won't be around in 15.

If he is sent to Prison, which after pleading guilty I can not seen any reason why he would not be, he won't survive many days in Prison, much less another 15 years, "Big Bubba" wil take care of him

[Warbaby1943]

Nah. Too easy on him. Lock him up for life in a deep, dark cell with nobody for company except Big Bubba Butt Fucker. Give him a taste of his own medicine.

LMAO I like your idea even better than mine.

[thrall]

Oh trust me.........i can think of a few.....VERY.....good punishments for him....sorry death at this point is far to good for him...

If i had my way......he would learn a whole new definition for pain, torture and abuse......and do everything in my power to keep him alive for a very very long time......

[Thorne]

Oh trust me.........i can think of a few.....VERY.....good punishments for him....sorry death at this point is far to good for him...

If i had my way......he would learn a whole new definition for pain, torture and abuse......and do everything in my power to keep him alive for a very very long time......

Mmmm! Nothing sexier than a bloodthirsty wench!

[fetishdj]

His wife helped deliver the babie, rembmer I send that he told neigbhors that his daughter had left home and then asked to come back 24 years later ... Yea Right, anyone want to buy the bridge I own on the outskirts of Tempe Arizona??

Did she? I neer saw that piece of info... last I heard she was claiming to be totally unaware of the whole thing. I suspect however that she knew more than she claims and is trying to distance herself. After all, I find it hard to believe that he was able to construct such a complex set up in his cellar without his wife or even his neighbours knowing about it. Most people, if told not to investigate a particular area of their own house, would at the very least be curious. Especially when strange noises of construction happened.

I think part of the reason this sort of thing appears more common these days is greater and more reliable reporting of crimes. Its the old argument used against expanding the police force - 'see, you increase the force and the crime rate goes up! Therefore more police = more crime and we should reduce the police force." But of course, all it means is more police means more resource to detect and record crime rates. There is always going to be a pool of undetected crime out there which will never appear on statistics. After all, everyone is guilty of something under the modern legal system (speeding, not picking up dog poo, loitering, drunk and disorderly, littering, driving while using a mobile phone, and lets not forget the classic crime of 'looking at a policeman in a funny way' which I did see someone do once and get into trouble for... )

[claire]

Does anyone besides me have really uncomfortable feelings about all this because it matches some of my darkest fantasies? Not anything I would want to do in real life, or have done to me, and I can only agree that it is a horrendous crime. But non-consent, imprisonment, incest, forced pregnancy all combine to turn me on in stories.

[mkemse]

Did she? I neer saw that piece of info... last I heard she was claiming to be totally unaware of the whole thing. I suspect however that she knew more than she claims and is trying to distance herself. After all, I find it hard to believe that he was able to construct such a complex set up in his cellar without his wife or even his neighbours knowing about it. Most people, if told not to investigate a particular area of their own house, would at the very least be curious. Especially when strange noises of construction happened.

I think part of the reason this sort of thing appears more common these days is greater and more reliable reporting of crimes. Its the old argument used against expanding the police force - 'see, you increase the force and the crime rate goes up! Therefore more police = more crime and we should reduce the police force." But of course, all it means is more police means more resource to detect and record crime rates. There is always going to be a pool of undetected crime out there which will never appear on statistics. After all, everyone is guilty of something under the modern legal system (speeding, not picking up dog poo, loitering, drunk and disorderly, littering, driving while using a mobile phone, and lets not forget the classic crime of 'looking at a policeman in a funny way' which I did see someone do once and get into trouble for... )

My apologies on that mis information on the delivery on the children, and as much as I hate to say it, from the entire siutation i think that is a very minor part of the story

[Thorne]

Does anyone besides me have really uncomfortable feelings about all this because it matches some of my darkest fantasies? Not anything I would want to do in real life, or have done to me, and I can only agree that it is a horrendous crime. But non-consent, imprisonment, incest, forced pregnancy all combine to turn me on in stories.

I was having similar thoughts. I doubt that there are too many doms here who haven't at some point had thoughts of keeping a sub in a dungeon for long term torture. I mean FUN! And I would venture to guess that a good number of subs would be willing to endure it, at least for a while.

But that would be CONSENSUAL, something completely different than what's in this situation. And 24 years is pushing it, to say the least.

And you're not alone in enjoying the FICTION of something similar to this. As long as you (and I) can discriminate between fantasy and reality there's nothing wrong with it.

[mkemse]

I was having similar thoughts. I doubt that there are too many doms here who haven't at some point had thoughts of keeping a sub in a dungeon for long term torture. I mean FUN! And I would venture to guess that a good number of subs would be willing to endure it, at least for a while.

But that would be CONSENSUAL, something completely different than what's in this situation. And 24 years is pushing it, to say the least.

And you're not alone in enjoying the FICTION of something similar to this. As long as you (and I) can discriminate between fantasy and reality there's nothing wrong with it.

Thorne
i agree with what you said, but I also agre with your fact that if a Dom keeps his sub like that is HAS to be consensual, the incident with this family was in no way as such, which maes it as bad as it is, plus even in RL i do not see any sub willing ot be kept locked up for 24 years, maybe afew days but never 24 years and to have 7 children to boot, not evn sure what type of fantasy this would be