Something I noticed while reading stories.

[BDSM_Tourguide]

I noticed that many stories appearing in the library seem geared more toward wanton violence, mostly toward women, and non-consensual sex. I was wondering a little about this and some of the ramifications of this.

Are some of these stories being written by people that are genuinely angry with women? Or perhaps with a specific woman? Are the stories written by people that have lived these fantasies out and look to do so again? Perhaps they are written to satiate the primal sexual desire before they actually act the fantasy out. Perhaps I am reading way too much into things, but I'm tired and it seemed like a good line of thought at the time.

I consider myself to be very tolerant of others. In fact, I am more tolerant of individuals than I am of cultures. Therefore, I understand that these stories are just stories. Fantasies and musings from minds possibly as twisted and corrupt as my own. So, i refuse to pass judgement on what a person writes. It is, after all, the actiions that speak louder than words.

At any rate, it was a passing musing that I had noticed. I thought, perhaps, that there would be more educational articles and stories than the presence of pure violence.

And don't get me wrong, please. Occasionally, I get in just the right mood for some good, old-fashioned violence. Just not all the time. So, I ask the good people here if they could please try to keep the perspective of the website in mind when contributing their material.

Thanks.

[Marcus]

I thought this topic deserved a reply even if you didn't actually ask a particular question.

This subject may be a bit complex for lil ol' me, but here goes...

It's true there are a lot of 'dark thoughts' here and many are repulsive to my mind, although many are quite appealing to me!

I don't believe that there is such a great divide between these 'dark thoughts' and our own morality as many would make out. It's the rule of law and the general consensus on our society that largely confines these acts to the world of fantasy.

The atrocities of the 20th century indicate quite clearly what man is capable of doing to others once he is told it is permissible and 'normal'. There were instances of mass rapes in Bosnia during the Balkans conflicts. I don't think this was caused through people reading or writing pornographic 'literature'.

I am more worried about people that have a fetish for knives, guns, other weapons, and death (not necrophilia/sex related).
We have a case of a doctor in the UK that killed at least 240 of his patients over a long period (don't get me going about police detectives again!). There was apparently no sexual motive involved! Now that is scary.

So my conclusion is that although the 'thoughts and ideas' on this site may not usually be exactly healthy I don't think they are particularly worrying or strange.

The amount of soul-less, gratuitous violence and killing that is sometimes glorified in our movies and media troubles me far more.

[boccaccio2000g]

Are some of these stories being written by people that are genuinely angry with women? Or perhaps with a specific woman? Are the stories written by people that have lived these fantasies out and look to do so again? Perhaps they are written to satiate the primal sexual desire before they actually act the fantasy out. Perhaps I am reading way too much into things, but I'm tired and it seemed like a good line of thought at the time.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

As one who writes rather violent stories, I'd like to respond toer that. I have no conscious anger toward women, much less any specific woman. I have never physically harmed a woman in my life, and have no wish to do so. In fact, I tend to fall in love, a bit, with most of the heroines in my stories, even though I subject many of them to some frightful ordeals. Why do I subject these beautiful creatures of my imagination to these ordeals? I don't know.

But regardless of how my villains mistreat them, in my heart of hearts I have great respect for my heroines, (as I do for women in general). With one or two exceptions, the women in my stories are nobler and more decent than the men. I sincerely hope that comes across in the stories.

I hope that readers find my stories erotic; but I also fervently hope that everyone realizes that they are no more real than the violence in a road-runner cartoon. Hopefully some find the sex and violence entertaining; if not I have failed miserably. But that is all it is -- an entertainment, a collection of dark fantasies.

Having read stories like these for a number of years, I think that (for most people) they provide a more or less healthy release for the troubling things that lurk in the remote corners of some of our minds.

I have always been concerned that a disturbed reader might try to act out one of the violent scenes in my stories. This is one of the reasons I set them far in the past, and usually in far-off places -- to lengthen the distance between the stories and some warped person's "reality".
******************************

So, I ask the good people here if they could please try to keep the perspective of the website in mind when contributing their material.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

But what IS the perspective of the website? I thought that its guiding purpose was that adults who were so inclined could read stories/articles expressing various points of view about BDSM. And there is certainly a tremendous variety of tastes catered to here; if you don't care for stories with lots of violence, it is not difficult to avoid the ones whose story codes put you off. I'd be very surprised if there was any member here who didn't avoid SOME story code(s).

Boccacio

[kimberly]

i too miss a good bondage story.....
:rifts off into thought of a St Andrews Cross::


Master's slave and soulmate,

[Marcus]

i too miss a good bondage story.....
:rifts off into thought of a St Andrews Cross::

Surely not! Do you need some recommendations?

Maybe Paul could read you some stories while you are on the Cross!

[Pooka]

I hope I am doing this correctly!

I am hoping to reply to Marcus and boccaccio2000g.

I have been reading the epic tale Boccaccio2000 has been writing and I have been enjoying it though have not yet given it a review. It's excellent quality writing and the story is compelling despite my general lack of interest in Asian history/culture of that time. LOL!

As a woman, I will add that having characters suffer violence isn't necessarily a quality of hate. In my own fantasies, I endure a great many trials as a way perhaps to feel that I'm up to any challenge? That I am strong, worthy of respect, even by my adversary. This is a common and very compelling theme and it is something that seems to sprout even from childhood. If you recall your own childhood games, or observe children playing, they are always facing adversity and overcoming it. It seems to be a way of preparing to face real challenges but underneath that, we all do want to feel that we are not powerless, that we will stand up for our own rights and our convictions. It is a theme to be found everywhere.

There is actually a very positive statement about the heroines resisting, enduring and never giving in (okay, some sometimes they do *grin*) ... it means they are strong and don't immediately cave in to demands of 'kneel bitch'. I think strong women are easily admired in such settings, especially since generally the women are in control of the men anyway. *grin* Interesting duality here. Strong women can be admired by men only if men truly have the upper hand? *wink*

I agree with Marcus concerning the atrocities that Man is capable of. While the U.S. began with the 'rule of law' premise, that is slowly being eroded and soon there will be little standing between us and total chaos where violence could very well become the accepted norm. It's well on its way already.

Thanks for a great topic!

Pooka

[Paul{k}]

A St. Andrew's Cross has deep significance for Me and My slave. W/we have often played with one, and the very first time kimberly was on one was a turning point in O/our relationship, leading U/us to realize just how much W/we mean to E/each O/other.

I will certainly be happy to read to kimberly while she is on one...but only for a few minutes. I have better ways of making her writhe and twist and squirm on the cross than by reading erotica to her.

*winks*

Sincerely,

Paul{k}
Master and Soulmate of kimberly{P}

[BDSM_Tourguide]

I try to post these thought-provoking topics to make sure everyone's had their morning coffee and get their brains working.

Or maybe it's to get my brain working... I'm not really sure.

i enjoy not only writing stories for the site, but I like writing posts and replies, mostly replies, for the message boards. However, I do have an artcile I want to post about romanticising bdsm relationships. I'm just a little worried about posting it as I fear it may offend the sensibilities of many members and I might get run out of here on a rail.

Anyway, I hope you like the site. Keep posting. I enjoy having something to reply to.

[Marcus]

There is actually a very positive statement about the heroines resisting, enduring and never giving in (okay, some sometimes they do *grin*) ...... Strong women can be admired by men only if men truly have the upper hand? *wink*

So true. Very well said. In terms of BDSM fiction I love stong, intelligent women particularly in a M/f setting. I couldn't bear to have a brainless, spineless heroine. Her plight is just so much more interesting than the Master's, even though I speak as a definite M. As you say 'an interesting duality'.

especially since generally the women are in control of the men anyway. *grin*

Hmmm, not sure about that one

[BDSM_Tourguide]

... come over here and say that.

[Paul{k}]

Dear Tourguide,

Go ahead and post the article that You spoke of, and don't worry about offending A/anybody's sensibilities. I think A/all of U/us are capable of handling any thought-provoking material that is brought to U/us here.

Sincerely,

Paul{k}
Master and Soulmate of kimberly{P}

[Pooka]

I wrote:

I think strong women are easily admired in such settings, especially since generally the women are in control of the men anyway. *grin*

-=-=-

What I meant to say is that in most situations, women don't and can't have the upper hand because the men have them under control or in some situation that the women cannot hope to escape in any event. And perhaps the women in some ways like it that way.

Hope that clears things up Marcus! *grin*

Sometimes my wording gets the best of me.

Pooka

[Pooka]

Originally posted by Paul{k}
Dear Tourguide,

Go ahead and post the article that You spoke of, and don't worry about offending A/anybody's sensibilities. I think A/all of U/us are capable of handling any thought-provoking material that is brought to U/us here.

I second the request ...

Yes, please do! This is my favorite topic of conversation!

New ideas and thoughts only bounce off closed minded people anyway, while those of us that enjoy them will have fun and even gain a bit of a new perspective!

Pooka

[cumeelion]

[I noticed that many stories appearing in the library seem geared more toward wanton violence, mostly toward women, and non-consensual sex.]


Maybe they're just mad at Brenda!

[Jennifer-Nylon]

There doesn't seem to be much female domination stories here or maybe I've just missed them because I'm not particularly interested in that aspect.

I must confess I rather like the wanton violen against women.

[BDSM_Tourguide]

There are femdom stories aplenty at this site. If you do an advanced search and click yes by all the F/whatever stories, you will find an inordinate amount of things for your reading pleasure.

As for wanton violence toward women, I prefer the violence to have something to do with the plot at least. Not just someone whacking the heads off women or torturing them just to prove they can.

I realize my story "Rose Takes a Day Off" is quite violent toward Rose, but she's learning to shut her mouth, too. My violence tends to help out the story, not just hurt the woman.

[Jennifer-Nylon]

I'm sure there is Female Domination stories here.

I was referring to women who dominate men though and as those type of stories have no interest for me, I don't really see them?

Violence has to have some reason, I agree. I rather like your story by the way.

[BDSM_Tourguide]

I rather don't like the F/m stories, either. But I'm kind of biased.

[Finding_Fantasy]

People are facinated by violence. I don't care you are or how often you say you aren't, you are. Somehwere, deep down inside, your primal instincts (for lack of a better word) make you interested.

For example, a lot of people will see a heart warming, lovey dovey, chick flick, or perhaps a tear jerking commercial about coming home from the holidays and change the channel. But what do they do when they see a war movie with some poor guy getting his leg blown off, or some person been tortured cruelly? THEY WATCH.

People crave violence in their lives. I don't know why, but they do. I am not head shrinker so I won't even hazard a guess, but it's true, people will stop and watch a house burn, a bloody, death filled car accident before they will watch a little kid playing happily in park (though if you do do this you may be consider a pedophile).

And the news. We will watch about people getting murdered in a place that has absolutely nothing to do with us on the other side of the world, but watch about some local kid winning a spelling bee (bad example). Forget it. We want action, we want violence. We don't want all this nice stuff.

I, myself, have death and torture in the novels I write. Why? Because it's what people want. If no one dies or if no one is tortured or maimed, no one wants to read it. AT least the majority.

Now maybe I sound a little bit synical or bascially disappointed in the human race, but it is my opinion and what I have observed. Agree or disagree with me if you like, these are just my own ramblings.

[Venus]

My opinion

Personaly I like violent stories (within reason of course). The more excited I get the more violent stories I read. However, for me it's not just violence that is exciting, but the whole concept of a man in control. I believe that both men and women have their place in life. And I am not saying that in an offensive way. I maybe a business woman in real life and get things done at work, but I need to be with a man who will be more experienced in life so that I could turn to him.
It's very hard to explain, but when I read violent stories for me they represent control, of course some stories are just violent and that's it. However, I prefer stories with a plot so that I could see the relationship form.
Over all I like violent stories, but only as stories because some are just too violent and bordering with torture and other require a very particular setting. I might be interested in experiencing some of the ordeals, but usually it's not possible. For example I love rape and kidnapping stories the ones that have some romance in them, but what are the chances in real life to get kidnapped by handsome dom, to be dominated and to be raped but at the same time to enjoy great sex? I think everyone will agree that it's almost impossible so I guess for me these stories are more of a fantasy that I read for entertainment.

[veru_skjava]

I have a hard time reading stories that are just plain violent towards women.

This is probably strange since on the other hand I love creative and divisive torture.

The act of just beating a woman for the cruelty sends me into defense mode. Simultaneously though a good and well thought out torture scene, especially sexual torture can arouse me tremendously.

just my two cents
veru skjava

[Finding_Fantasy]

I would have to agree with you there, veru. A story that has violence with no reason other than the pure sake of violence has little to no interest to me. It in fact makes me a little angry. Maybe perhaps because I was in an intensely abusive relationship where I was beaten on a whim? I don't know.

Isn't it kind of funny how we find just blatant, unprovoked violence as appalling and yet if it has a "purpose" a "meaning" we get aroused? Strange isn't it. I guess we BDSMer's are a weird sort of animal

[BDSM_Tourguide]

Maybe it's a good thing that my blushing bride doesn't ever read my stories. The last one cannot be deemed as consentual by a long shot.

On the other hand, at least the violence serves a porpoise.

[bunnyrabbit48]

There is no exact measure in this. A violence story to me may be a lame story to another, and vice versa. If I said it is okay to have violence providing the story is tastefully done, then one person's opinion of tastefully done is different than another.

A few years ago, Threshold, one of the larger Los Angeles chapter of BDSM group has a member who left because some members post actual violence slavery story and these members posted the story just like any other gossip. That female member left the group and post a message saying "hey, these are not fantasy, they are reality. And quite frankly I agree with her.

On the other hand, if violence is posted in a fantasy novel, I would like it all depends on who the reader is to determine whether it is tastefully done or not.

[Finding_Fantasy]

But as bunnyrabbit has stated, it needs to be tastefully done. From what you have told me about your story, Master dear, it is tastefully done. I just have a hard time reading erotic stories. Don't ask me why, cause I have no idea. But I will read it, pehaps when it is finished, that way I can read it from start to finish.

[veru_skjava]

Hmmmmmmm I do not feel consenual is important, I actually search for n/c codes, as I prefer them.

The difficulty I have is the brutality of some stories.

Maybe this can illustrate what I mean. I was listening to an online scene, the slave was bound between two posts, and lots of delicious tortures were used, electric, floggers, canes, whips, **mmmmmm** delicious.

Following her being released, folding herself up into a ball on the floor, a second dominant came over and kicked her in the stomach!

THAT is sooooo unacceptable to my interior reactions. In fact it so dispturbed me that I have a very hard time with that individuals involvement in scenes, online OR (and especially) off.

I am not criticizing, just stating what does it for me, and what turns me of completely!

Thanks,
veru skjava

[Finding_Fantasy]

I miss that. BDSM_Tourguide and myself met in a chatroom (yes we are an online success story). When we first started going there, there were scenes every night, slaves and submissives served their Masters and Mistresses, and were respectable. Now, if you try to have a scene they have a heart attack. Granted now there are a lot of "newbies" and none of the "old folks" as we called them. We rarely go there anymore because a lot of people there are flakey. We have been hard pressed to find a good chat place. I was given a good one when I first came here, but it won't work from my work computer. It's too old Ah well

As for the submissive being kicked by a dominant while she was down...I would have lost it, being a submissive or not. I don't care who you think you are or what you think you are, you never kick someone when they are down. It's a general humane pricipal. I can't tell you how much that makes me mad.

[veru_skjava]

smiles I agree completely!

here are two wonderful chat rooms, LOL ok so i am biased,

the first one truely encourages scenes, though not "serves" and as I have stated elsewhere is a chat room named after a story here on the site.
the owner of the room, DemonLady is the author of that story. here is the link:
Raiders Dungeon chat room

This room encourages sceneing as well as serves of all degrees, be sure to read the ettiquette and rules page. I will give the front door of the site to this location.

The D/s Garden

Since we are at yahoo together, you know the other names I go by, I'm sure you may find these two loacations rather enjoyable.

I hope to see you there.

*smiles*

veru skjava

[Finding_Fantasy]

That's great! Thanks a lot veru. Having the links here will help since I don't actually like to leave a trail of where I have been at work. I'm allowed to surf, but somehow I think they would frown on me using it for this kind of stuff.

[boccaccio2000g]

As for the submissive being kicked by a dominant while she was down...I would have lost it, being a submissive or not. I don't care who you think you are or what you think you are, you never kick someone when they are down. It's a general humane pricipal. I can't tell you how much that makes me mad. [/B][/QUOTE]

I have been following the exchange between you and Veru with some interest. A question -- "I can't tell you how much that makes me mad" -- are you referring to real life, in those words (in which case I would absolutely agree with you, of course) ? Or to stories in which villainous characters demonstrate such brutality as well?

Villains, by definition, are not going to observe conventional codes of conduct or morality.

We each have our own comfort zone, I suspect, beyond which we quickly grow uncomfortable with additional levels of violence. Mine is set fairly high, I think, (in my stories, I mean), but even so, I get about as many requests to ratchet the violence up a notch, as I do to ratchet it down.

No one ever says I got it just right. :-)

Do other authors get similar comments? Does anyone ever heed them? Or do you just continue writing in your own way as best you can?

Thanks in advance,

Boccaccio