How the Rules of Pursuit Changes

[Ozme52]

I had a recent observation that I wanted to share... and to take in opinions.

In the vanilla world I grew up in, in general... Boys pursue girls. Men pursue women. But it's not quite that simple. In reality, the female of our species gets all gussied up and goes to extreme lengths to attract the male. Men look and court those to whom they are attracted, hoping to gain the favor of their choice. Ultimately though, the woman chooses. Yes, it's expected that the man will ask the woman on a date, will wine and dine, will ask for sex, will ultimately ask for her hand in marriage. But in all these cases, the woman says yes or no.

Now in our world, I've come to realize that it is perhaps the same activities, but it is not necessarily gender based... or if it is, I'll have to ask for the dommes to chime in and say so... but my point is... I've noted that it is more role based.

Instead of men and women, it's doms and subs... and contrary to your first instincts, especially if you think of doms as mostly men and subs as mostly women (again, I need input,)...

I think this is how it goes. Subs pursue doms. The doms get all dressed up, looking good in black or leather or whatever suits them... and mostly they put on this cloak of domliness about them. Strut their stuff. Go to lengths to attract the attention of submissives. Subs look for and court the favor of the doms they find attractive, hoping to gain the favor of their choice. Ultimately the dom chooses. Yes, it's expected that the sub will offer the gift of her submission, but it is the dom who says yes or no.

Think about it for a while... and then tell me whether or not I'm onto something here.

[ThisYouWillDo]

Are things still that genteel in vanilla USA? Over here the roles played by each sex have altered significantly. A girl will dress up to "pull" ... and she will go after the guy she fancies, quite openly. A guy, too will go after any girl he likes. Sex is now part of the attraction process, no longer the reward for commitment.

Oh and commitment ... that's gone west! More and more British girls are choosing to live single lives, which means more and more British men are also leading single lives, whether they want to or not.

I guess that shows the girls still have the whip hand (if that's the right phrase to use here).

TYWD

[Sir_Russell]

Oz, good thread thanks

Seem we have 2 differing points of view on says the women are in control the other says the Doms are.

In vanilla life I agree that the women are in control do the choosing and call most of the shots. Our society has taught men to lie, or do anything to get into the lady's panties, making men not just submissives but submissive without any honor or pride. When vanilla guys want to know why am I a Dom and start to spew their fantasies about what it would be like to be one, I ask them are they dominant or submissive in their relationship. Most admit quickly that they mow the lawn, etc to get a little head or attention. I tell them why do you put up with that. They normally answer that they have to do what she wants to get a little attention. I tell them they are what most American males have become submissives. Next question is how happy are the 2 of you really. They hem and haw then admit that they love their lady but they aren't happy, most of the ladies confirm the same feelings. What a screwed up world we have created where instead of honor being the glue that binds it is deception and denial that rules.

Oz I don't know about dressing up but then again I guess I do agree. I have all ways been a clothes horse and concerned about my physical appearance. I have been chased a lot more in my life then I have chased.

Since I have all ways been a Dom I guess I assumed that was the way it was supposed to be. So I do agree with you Oz that in our way of Life the subs do chase the Doms, do all they can to stand out in his eyes, hoping to win his favor, to feel his strength and power.

Vanilla is just not what I can do, ill prepared for that life, I will be alone rather then lie to get laid.

[sipgirl]

My situation is a bit different, but I will chime in on this one...well, just because. My husband is my Dom. We were young when we got together. Both of us had sexual experience but not so much in the BDSM aspect. Before when I "dated" I never really chased after a man...they chased after me. I never got dumped I was always the dumper not the dumpee. When I met Him, neither of us discussed the BDSM thing. I knew that I wanted a man who could accept that I was an independent young woman. He accepted it whole heartedly. It wasnt until after our relationship grew and we married that we began to explore the BDSM fellings we both admitted to having.
I am in total control in the day to day of things, but still make his coffee every day, cook his dinner, pack his lunches...I always have. Not because I felt the need to "impress" him, but because its just the nice thing to do.
Anyway...I guess what it is I am trying to say is this....I never have nor do I "dress up" to try and attract any man. If He requests that I wear a certain something I do, if he requests that I look a certain way..I do. Im not sure that even if I were single now I would pursue a Dom specifiaclly because they were a Dom. As a strong willed, woman who happens to be submissive I feel that just like the Nillas' I would be attracted to someone if they had the qualities I was looking for. I dont feel that it is quite so easy to generalize "the girl chases the guy," or the girl "hunts" for the Dom. Attraction is attraction and I think both parties involved often try and "gussy up" (my Gmas favorite saying)to impress or otherwise attract the other.
Just my 2 cents..

[blythe spirit]

Well, as Angie Dickenson once said, "I don't dress for men, I undress for them."

Vanilla, or any other kind of relationship, I don't do the chasing. Vanilla men have approached me and it's my choice as to whether or not I want to get to know them better and Dominant men have contacted me - again it was my choice as to whether or not I wanted to get to know them better. I've never pursued anyone and doubt I ever will.

[gloombunny]

You straight people are weird.

[Logic1]

I have chased after and been chased. Both works fine for me. If I am chased after I get to choose and if I chase the woman gets to choose and I guess that´s the case for all people. The chased gets to make the choice nilla or bdsm.

[TomStraye]

I have to be honest and say that my first reaction on reading this was OH YES! Damned right!

I have never chased after submissives as a matter of policy. I know some refuse to go slave-hunting simply to enhance their image and protect their ego against bruising rejection but, with me, it is simply practical. Them chasing me, begging to be taken on, removes any suggestion that I somehow seduced them into a state of slavery that they would otherwise have rejected in the cold light of day.

Except, when you think about it, this game of kiss-chase is not all that it appears, even in the vanilla world.

My son actually asked me for fatherly advice in that department the other day and I told him what I told a friend many years ago. I said: “If a woman doesn’t want you, you can chase her until you die of exhaustion, but you’ll never get her. If, on the other hands, a woman comes after you, surrender because she will get you in the end by fair means or foul!”

What I hadn’t realised, delivering that speech the first time, was that the woman the guy was asking about was standing at the far end of the bar. She chuckled and gave me a look that said OH YES! DAMNED RIGHT I WILL!

My point is that, in the vanilla world, I have noticed how often women contrive for the man of their choice to chase after them, and I cannot help but notice Dominants of both genders adopting a similar strategy — not asking directly but simply making it known that we would be open to an approach. I guess, even posting here could be seen as ‘subliminal advertising’ of that sort.

I will just add one last thing, though — sometimes you just have to come right out and show interest and ask for what you want. Happily for my son, his current girlfriend just realised that. She’s been sending him signals for weeks, poor girl, but he’s been to nervous to act on them. In the end she just grabbed him and got to it. He is now spending his 20th birthday at her place.

[Haelix]

Wow... lol there are some phenomenal good posts in here! Sir Russell, thats a great point.. who really is the sub? haha I hadn't thought of it like that before. And Tom, I almost want that "If a woman doesn't want you.." quote on a poster or something. genius.
Haelix

[sirr_reggie]

I have never successfully started a successful Dom/Sub relationship on purpose. I have successfully started several 'Vanilla' relationships that evolved either slowly or very quickly into Dom/Sub relationships because that's who we were before we got together, whether she completely realized that or not.

I strongly believe that we attract through the vibes we put out and the vision we have for what we want to attract. She will sense my Dominant side and I will 'see' her Submissive side through her unconscious signals during the mating ritual,

What happens after that, what dynamics occur are completely individual and up to the 2 different people involved. I have been happy being one way with one and slightly different with another. If one has different limits and I love her, I can live with that. If another has other likes and dislikes and that parameter still satisfies me in both love and sex, I'm still a happy guy.

Bottom line, I have to love this woman for her to be my Sub but her likes and dislikes in the bedroom better match mine to a much greater extent than they don't.

I wish us all great relationships!

SR

[TomStraye]

Tom, I almost want that "If a woman doesn't want you.." quote on a poster or something. genius.
Haelix

Glad you like the quote. Use it anytime. At my standard professional rates, it works out at £1 per word, but I'll settle for a by-line.

I think it is true though. What appears on the surface is rarely what is.

That's why, although I really do think the roles of hunter and quarry are switched in what we do, as compared to conventional vanilla courting, one thought does occur to me. What is setting out baited traps if not just another form of hunting?

In other words, it seems to me that, vanilla or no, the reality is that we all pursue each other, regardless of gender or role. We just adopt different strategies is all. Whatever works best for us as individuals — whatever offers the best chance of hunter and prey colliding and merging into a relastionship.

I think it's called being human.

Or should that be "being horny"?