Safe Calls

[cariad]

We have all heard about them (I hope), we all know that they are a must, but we all have different experiences of them.

I have just come from a thread where someone was excited at the prospect of meeting a Dom for the first time. I have also caught her excitement and really hope the meeting is all they could both wish for.

However rather than just echoing what everyone else has said in that thread about safe calls, I thought if would be useful to pool information and experiences.

Have you been part of safe calls? Either as the sub, the Dom or the person on the other end of the phone? What was good or bad? Do you have any tips to pass on?

cariad

[John56{vg}]

When I met BadKitty77 for the first time it was in the middle of the day in a public place. But the first thing I had her do is call her folks and talk to them. It was not a formalized "safe call" but it served the same purpose I think.

I wanted her and her family to know she was safe and taken care of.

[annie]

The first time I met my very FIRST Dom I had no clue... met him in a quiet state park area with a lake and plenty of forests, which we of course walked pretty far into for "privacy" to talk and no one had no clue where I was. Partly because I was so new to the lifestyle I was afraid to tell anyone who I was meeting, etc. To this day, when I look back on that, all I can think is how lucky I am that he was NOT a mass murder and that I came out alive. Talk about stupid human tricks... THAT, imho, was a major one!

After that experience, and having someone along the way explain to me exactly how stupid and lucky I had been I have always used a safe call, at least for an initial meeting and most of the time even for the first several meetings with someone. It may not matter to the person I am meeting (which actually concerns me know if it doesn't!) if I have one or not, but for my piece of mind during the meeting it helps greatly to know there is a catch system in place.

I could have sworn there was another thread here that talked about safe calls and used an example of not only having a safe call but having it set up so the person called you, instead of you making the call, and that you used key phrases to indicate to the person on the other end of the call if you were in trouble or not, just in the case someone was preventing you from being honest. Such as:

Yes, things are wonderful = safe
Yep, things are fine = call help now!

hmmmmmm *goes off in search... *

[mysc]

I've made some stupid decisions in the past as well.. and the thing is you know in the back of your head "it's wrong" but somehow the excitement is stronger..
I'm pro safe calls... you don't even have to say that your date is bdsm related, it could just be a blind date. And as a first date I wouldn't meet privately anymore just in a public place where you can get to know eachother first..

[TomOfSweden]

Don't forget that most rapes are carried out by young men, (15-21) you already know in an environment the victim thought was safe. People jumped in secluded places is so extremely rare it's hardly worth worrying about. There's no reason to overdo the security issue. Magazines exaggerate to an extreme level.

I think it's a lot better to stress the communication bit. Make sure the Dom understands where the limits are and that they must not under any circumstances be crossed, and if they are it would be considered rape and will be reported.

It should be quite easy for any sub to asses if a Dom is an idiot or not. Should be. But maybe that's just me. Warning bells are always to be taken seriously.

edit: and it's also helpful to know that hints don't work on most men. They need to be told when they're doing it right/wrong.

edit2: I spoke to my slave about safe calls, and she said "ridiculous", and she's lived in pretty sexist and rough countries. Maybe it's just down to your own insecurity and not about avoiding rape. Even if the guy turns out to be a rapist. Out in a neutral place a safe call is unnecessary and when you're at home it's too late no matter what.

Me as a man, if a woman I'm going on a date with would go to all these precautions I don't think I would bother. It's a bit freaky and above all it shows that she really doesn't trust me. I require some level of rudimentary trust for it to work at all. It's a sign of bravery and bravery turns me on.

[Warbaby1943]

Good thread though I may never have any reason to be involved on either side of a citation I do believe it is important to have this thread where all can see.

Thanks cariad.

[Flaming_Redhead]

The first time I met a Dom, I had a safe call. I even think he may have insisted. I really can't remember which one of us brought it up. Anyway, I was going to be out of state, so it was important that someone know where I was going, who I was with, etc. I think the signals were if I said everything was fine that they were indeed fine, but if I asked her to please remember to let the dogs out for me (I don't have dogs and neither does she), it meant call the police immediately. I called my best friend when I left that morning. I called her when I crossed the state line. I called her when I got to the restaurant. I called her when I left the restaurant and told her I was going to a hotel. I called her from the hotel and gave her the name, address, phone number and room number. She told me to call after the session no matter how late it was, so I did. I called her when I left the next morning, when I crossed the state line and when I got home. As a backup, another friend of mine knew about it, though I didn't call that one. He did call me the next day to make sure I was still alive. lol I know it seems like a lot of calling, but you can't be too careful these days. If he's not a serial killer, then he shouldn't complain and could even remind you to check in.

[Rhabbi]

I think safe calls are a necessity whenever meeting someone to play for the first time. I ask all subs I meet if they have an arranged safe call, and tend to walk away from those that do not. I know I am safe, but I also know that I like the safety valve of knowing a call will be made.

[cadence]

I would like to ask a question on safe calls if I may.
Hypothetically speaking for now, because I wouldn't do it, but have had offers before to meet, and not just for a coffee.

I have been befriended by Doms, and have known them for more than a year, I know what they look like and am comfortable in talking with them.

I have been offered to meet for a play session, and while the offers are appealing and tempting, I cannot do so.

That got me to thinking about safe calls, I don't know anyone well enough to ask or feel comfortable in asking.
I can't use my friends, or my family, that would raise a lot of questions that I could not answer for them.
What does one do if there is no opportunity for a safe call? Is there any other methods that one can use?

[Ozme52]

I would like to ask a question on safe calls if I may.
Hypothetically speaking for now, because I wouldn't do it, but have had offers before to meet, and not just for a coffee.

I have been befriended by Doms, and have known them for more than a year, I know what they look like and am comfortable in talking with them.

I have been offered to meet for a play session, and while the offers are appealing and tempting, I cannot do so.

That got me to thinking about safe calls, I don't know anyone well enough to ask or feel comfortable in asking.
I can't use my friends, or my family, that would raise a lot of questions that I could not answer for them.
What does one do if there is no opportunity for a safe call? Is there any other methods that one can use?

Use someone from the forum. Or find your local munch group, make a connection with a couple of the women, and use them.

----------------------------
I'm pro safe calls in general, but to the same degree you would have one for any first time social encounter...

I don't believe there is a higher proportional risk to meeting someone from the Net. But then I've said that before.

[cream _(DNW)]

I think a safe call is good as well,and I have one in place for myself over my weekend trip.I have this in place for one reason.If some things happens I can make the call and get back here to my house fast.To me everyone needs to have this cause you never know what will happen.

[annie]

I would like to ask a question on safe calls if I may.
Hypothetically speaking for now, because I wouldn't do it, but have had offers before to meet, and not just for a coffee.

I have been befriended by Doms, and have known them for more than a year, I know what they look like and am comfortable in talking with them.

I have been offered to meet for a play session, and while the offers are appealing and tempting, I cannot do so.

That got me to thinking about safe calls, I don't know anyone well enough to ask or feel comfortable in asking.
I can't use my friends, or my family, that would raise a lot of questions that I could not answer for them.
What does one do if there is no opportunity for a safe call? Is there any other methods that one can use?

That was sort of like the situation I was in my first time and why I didn't have a call in place. Keep in mind though... a safe call can be ANYONE that you trust. My friend in Canada, who was my safe call, I never met until almost a year later. I had met her through a D/s website and we had become friends, so she was aware of the risks, etc. When I used her as a safe call, she had ALL of my information, the number of the hotel, the name of the town, local police/sheriff's number, etc.

So, if you don't feel that you can use your friends or family, is there someone from here you have spoken too and trust? The location of the "call" in my mind is not as important as their ability to notify the police in the location that you would be in if danger arose.

[annie]

Something I think that needs to be pointed out is that the safe call is not only designed, imho, for the sub but should be in place for the Dom/me too. Just because the power may be seen in the other direction that still doesn't mean that the Dom/me isn't meeting a serial killer as well.

I know most Dom's, who insist (and at times demand) that any sub they meet have a safe call, then don't take the same precautions themselves. That to me makes no sense. Can I over power a man with physical strength? Probably not. Could I drug him or have a friend waiting to ambush him.... absolutely. (NOT that I would but you get the point...)

Anytime, you are meeting someone new, no matter how you met, your role, or your sex, in my mind, a safe call is the only way to go!

[cadence]

Use someone from the forum. Or find your local munch group, make a connection with a couple of the women, and use them.

----------------------------
I'm pro safe calls in general, but to the same degree you would have one for any first time social encounter...

I don't believe there is a higher proportional risk to meeting someone from the Net. But then I've said that before.

So, if you don't feel that you can use your friends or family, is there someone from here you have spoken too and trust? The location of the "call" in my mind is not as important as their ability to notify the police in the location that you would be in if danger arose.

I am just using my own situation as a guideline, I am quiet and tend to be a bit distant most times. It takes me a long time to be comfortable and to actually get to know others. So while I do "know" people, I don't know people well enough to ask a favour such as this. I just wonder if there are others who are new and do not know many people, who would just forgo the safe call, because there are no other options available to them.

I suppose that am going to answer my own question since there are really no other viable options that can overide the significance and importance of a safe call.
But thanks, and if I ever did actually meet someone, I would more than likely think twice and find someone who would help out.

[gagged_Louise]

Just adding that if your date proves to be, not a serial killer, but a dangerous or overenthusiastic rapist masquerading as a Dom, and you get out alive but in a mess and manage to call your safeguard person afterwards, the fact that you had him/her (the safecaller) in on what you were doing is no guarantee that you can get this Dom/me nailed for rape. Even if you're totally aure that what you had to go through was a violent and non-con rape, the court may still judge that he* had reason to think you'd accepted it, and hence, he didn't really intend to rape you but to help bring out your fantasies (and this still presupposes that court and jury can muster some understanding of what bdsm is about)

Of course, lawmaking and practice about rape/sexual abuse are variable from one country to the next, but it's been noticeable in several countries that it can be very hard to establish that someone actually intended rape, and the idea of intent - which is a very central one to get anyone convicted - is sometimes interpreted in a highly restrictive way, so that there's a lot that has to be shown to indicate that it was, like, intentional rape.
There was a case in Sweden this spring where a girl (aged around 20) had been through a night of very violent sex with two men; she had been offered a good deal of drink and narcotics and then, she claimed, beaten up and raped. Toward the end she was half unconscious, and had some memory blanks afterwards. Now medically it was clear she had been assaulted, penetrated and badly roughed - for instance she'd had a cell phone pushed into her ass - and the court judged her description of what had happened was definitely more trustworthy than that of the two men, but still they were acquitted. The court felt it had not been proven that these two guys actually understood that she had rapidly lost interest, protested and fought not to be abused like this. So in the court's view (I don't think they were unanimous and the case is going for appeal soon) it wasn't certain it had been intentional rape.

Though it was not stated openly in the news coverage of that trial, it seemed very likely that she had some interest in rough/s/m sex and might have asked those two men to have a hot kinky night with her - so they'd have been able to see her struggle and angry outcries as just "token resistance" but at any rate she rapidly got overtaken by what they wanted to get from her, and started crying and fighting to get free ("safeword" was obviously something they had never heard about). In my own view the court took a too narrow view of what it takes to prove intent, but this is a problem that can crop up again and again when a rape case gets to court, and it's got a special bearing on bdsm preferences.

*I'm assuming from here that the Dom/rapist was a man, to avoid bothering with double pronouns, though I'm of the opinion you can be raped in other ways than penetrative sex, and men, in that sense, are not immune from being raped by women)

[Euryleia]

I understand where Cadence is coming from. I may be an out lesbian in my personal and professional life but I haven't come out to everyone (including family) with the kink aspect. It can be difficult to address safety when the peope in your life do not know just what the real concerns might be.

Regarding safe calls, I generally just tell my friends that it is a blind date. You don't have to go into specifics, just where, when, how long and to expect a call when everything's over. I've got a ******** on my phone that is just like a safe word--I put the person who I've trusted to check on me on that ring and let my play partner know that (no matter what is happening), everything stops for me to answer that call.

Even when going out with women, it is necessary to protect yourself, especially if there will be bondage or some other aspect that puts you in a vulnerable position. Tell someone, even if it is in a letter form that you leave for the person feeding your dog. Play safe and you'll play a lot longer.

ER

[TomOfSweden]

Something I think that needs to be pointed out is that the safe call is not only designed, imho, for the sub but should be in place for the Dom/me too. Just because the power may be seen in the other direction that still doesn't mean that the Dom/me isn't meeting a serial killer as well.

I know most Dom's, who insist (and at times demand) that any sub they meet have a safe call, then don't take the same precautions themselves. That to me makes no sense. Can I over power a man with physical strength? Probably not. Could I drug him or have a friend waiting to ambush him.... absolutely. (NOT that I would but you get the point...)

Anytime, you are meeting someone new, no matter how you met, your role, or your sex, in my mind, a safe call is the only way to go!

But we learn how to handle crazy chicks at a very young age. You'd be surprised how many girls are secretly lunatics who don't reveal them selves until after the sex. Or even during. All that's really needed is to hide knives.

[Sir_Russell]

I agree with you anne Doms need it too not as much as subs but still.

I agree hid the knives

[tessa]

But we learn how to handle crazy chicks at a very young age. You'd be surprised how many girls are secretly lunatics who don't reveal them selves until after the sex. Or even during. All that's really needed is to hide knives.

Tom, you're most definitely in line for the expert in "hide knives from the crazy chicks" award.

But I'm with annie on this. Everyone involved should have a safe call. That one "crazy chick" may just happen to know where the hiding place is.

[Sir_Russell]

I think I am in that line too tessa

[tessa]

I think I am in that line too tessa

~has to laugh~

Just who did y'all hook up with?!?!

Nevermind. It's bedtime and I don't want to have nightmares.

[Dragon's muse]

But I'm with annie on this. Everyone involved should have a safe call. That one "crazy chick" may just happen to know where the hiding place is.

Or could bring her own knives.