purely out of curiousity

[themoog]

hi there, this is purely out of curiousity, having read some of the stories that feature snuff and having watched 8mm with nick cage in, i was just wondering if anyone has actually seen a snuff movie or are they just one of the many tales of time?

the moog

[csr]

Check this out:

http://www.snopes.com/horrors/madmen/snuff.htm

[MrJerseyGuy]

I just made a post regarding something along these lines last week. As a city copy investigating sex crimes, I have seen some genuine torture movies. I don't recall any that involved an actually killing (although who knows what happended to those poor girls after the filming was completed).

I'd have to think you'd be a real moron to try to market something like that commercially.

And for the record, no, I'm not into it! I draw the limit at good old fashioned torture!

[Barton]

Ah, but there are always morons out there now, are there not?

Barton

[woodsman'sgame]

I read the information in the link you provided, csr, and it makes sense and seems to be well documented and supported. So "snuff" films seem to be another urban legend. That's a relief.

[Atrophine]

Unknown Russian Soldier.

look it up on imesh or whatever.

[slavelucy]

Ah, but there are always morons out there now, are there not?

Barton

Yeah, that's certainly true enough Barton, unfortunately.

i always assumed (or rather hoped) that snuff films were the stuff of urban myth..i certainly would hope that was the case anyway. But having heard some of what MrJG has to say, one cannot help but feel a twinge of concern about just how far some of these wankers would go, they clearly live and operate by a different ethical code to most people.



sl

[Garmonbozia]

So is film of public executions not considered snuff?

[slavelucy]

So is film of public executions not considered snuff?

Who are you talking to/asking the question of? Or is it a general wondering?

sl

[csr]

So is film of public executions not considered snuff?

If you check out the link I posted earlier it has some pretty good explanation/definitions.

I read somewhere else that the difference that sets snuff apart is that films like "Faces of Death" merely chronicle death on film, whereas snuff choreographs death on film.

I would think a public execution was being performed for reasons other than to excite the viewer sexually, which is really what snuff porn is all about isn't it?

[slavelucy]

I read somewhere else that the difference that sets snuff apart is that films like "Faces of Death" merely chronicle death on film, whereas snuff choreographs death on film.

I would think a public execution was being performed for reasons other than to excite the viewer sexually, which is really what snuff porn is all about isn't it?

What an excellent way of putting it.

i never considered executions to be 'snuff movies'; in them, without wishing to sound glib. someone is snuffed but they are not snuff movies, the specific intent of them is not to excite or titilate. Having said that, one kinda has to wonder who makes up the viewing figures for such VT's...but still, they wern't made with the same motivation (sexual excitement and making money).

sl

[csr]

What an excellent way of putting it.

I'd like to say 'thanks' but I really can't take credit for that line--I just really wish I could remember where I read it 'cause I thought it was rather good too.

[AndrewBlack]

I'd be surprised if someone hadn't made a snuff movie, I mean torture and atrocity are real and in fact commonplace in other parts of the world, I'm sure some people must film it and some of them must get off on it, whether they choose to market it is another issue but given how common real torture is...

[allalone46]

I read, and herd there were two brothers that di d make some snuff filmes for there own private colection. But thay arn't doing them any more. Thay are dead now and there colection I think is eather in the hands of the US millatary, or the new Iraq government. But that is only something I herd on radio, and read in some papers.

[MrJerseyGuy]

Ah, but there are always morons out there now, are there not?

Barton

You are absolutely right! The world is full of them. And as for snuff being an urban legend, I don't believe that for a minute. I am sure they have been made in quantities that would offend the sensibilities of most of us. I just doubt that very many of them have been marketed commercially. I'm sure they have been marketed privately.

You know, I had been a big city cop for a lot of years before I started working Vice, which included sex crimes. I thought I had seen it all...up until then. I don't doubt anything now. You can absolutely bet that they are out there.

[BDSM_Tourguide]

Snuff films DO exist. I've downloaded a couple off kazaa and WinMX. Nothing particularly gruesome or gory or anything, just an enactment of a chick being stragled to death and a supposed scene of a girl being impaled on a metal rod and electricuted to death.

Neither were real. They were very obviously fake.

About 99.9% of any snuf variety films you will find, and you can find them, are not real killings. They're just porn with a supposed death at the end. You can rent most snuff films at the "Brand X" video rental places. You know? The places usually found in the basement of other XXX video places? The places where you don't want to touch the walls or the film cases.

Every now and then someone does make a real snuff film, usually the girl in the film is also a minor. Most of these get reported to the FBI and/or police before they ever see the light of day. Your chances of viewing an actual piece of snuff porn are about the same as you standing at the exact spot where a meteor will hit the earth.

Granted, there are snuff films out there that have nothing to do with porn, like the Iraqi beheading video, but why anyone would actually want to sit and watch it, I don't know.

[Garmonbozia]

I was wondering about public executions because I have seen film of one in India, a hanging, and there were hundreds of people there watching and it was a very festive atmosphere. It was filimed sometime in the 30's I believe and it's not the greatest footage but it is real and was filmed at the behest of the governor or whatever they call them in India for personal use (ie it was not a government sanctioned film to be used to deter criminals).

So this film may not have been made for the purposes of sexual gratification but it was for personal consumption so where is the line drawn. It was not tittilating. The victim had a hood on and the camera wasn't in that close but it was real.

I am not interested in this kind of thing myself, and I dearly wish I had not seen it (I was actually a little disturbed by the scene in Gimme Shelter so you can tell from that I am not a fan of snuff), but I am not one to turn away.

I do believe that there is footage someone has shot for their own personal use but I don't think there are any commercially available (no matter how clandestine the organisation). Anything can and does happen. What about the guy who was recently acquitted, in a Scandinavian country, for killing and eating a willing participant. The victim (or subject really as he was 100% willing) answered an ad this guy placed and after a while of correspodence gave himself up to be killed and eaten. So there are definitely people out there willing and able to do pretty much anything.

Jason

[slavelucy]

What about the guy who was recently acquitted, in a Scandinavian country, for killing and eating a willing participant. The victim (or subject really as he was 100% willing) answered an ad this guy placed and after a while of correspodence gave himself up to be killed and eaten. So there are definitely people out there willing and able to do pretty much anything.

If you mean Armin Meiwes from Germany (and from your description, i strongly suspect you do), he wasn't found guilty of murder, but he was actually acquitted either, he was found guilty of manslaughter and sentenced to 8 years. There's some stuff about the outcome of the trial here:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/3443293.stm

i am clearly not sanctioning his actions, but the guy he killed (etc) was a willing participant, and the case involves specific psychological issues regarding the need to consume human flesh ( ) , whereas i'm assuming that the snuff films to which MrJG, TG et al refer are one's wherein the victims are largely not willing.

You make an interesting point sunegeg, regarding the nature of the fine line being drawn, particularly in the example you provide; the execution was used for personal consumption even if the express intention of it was not for titillation. i therefore think the distinction can only be be based on if the recording had any other purpose other than titillation and making money, it probably isn't snuff, even if it went on to be viewed by people who were viewing it for that reason.

As for the festive atmosphere on the tape you saw...i'd say that was probably a historical time, place and culture thing.

sl

[Curtis]

Yes, slavelucy's last sentence is very true. Being from Down Under, you people have had very little (comparatively speaking) experience with public execution in your history, but in both the United States and Mother England, they were wildly popular, with souvenier salesmen, food vendors, etc. In the nineteenth century, they would sometimes draw crowds of tens of thousands. Some places would charge admission (to hold down the crowds and/or defray the cost of the trial/execution/crowd control). They were looked forward to with great anticipation.

I agree with csr's definition of snuff, which is similar to mine: snuff is death for the explicit purpose of sexual gratification.