Very worried that current bdsm is caused by past abuse

[duktig flicka]

I need to get some things off my chest in order to be able to ask a question I really need to ask. These have always been deep, dark secrets that I have not shared with anyone - except for my boyfriend in a very vague manner - so please forgive me if I'm not handling this appropriately.

The basic question is twofold: Why do I enjoy bdsm and is it harming me? Then there's the background. My dad was very sadistic and had a Dr. Jekyl and Mr. Hyde personality. He was prone to losing his temper out of the blue, at which time he became violent towards me and did humiliating things like throwing me to the floor and pinning my face down with his foot.

I was also pretty isolated growing up. I had to be home-schooled as I was training as a pre-professional ballet dancer full time since I was 8. You may or may not know that the ballet industry endorses teachers and directors to verbally and emotionally abuse dancers constantly. Less than perfection in performance and appearance was not tolerated and anyone who came over 105-110 lbs at the weekly public weigh-ins could look forward to several weeks of hell till she shed that fat.

As such, every male I saw when I was growing up was sadistic and every female was destroying herself to please them. Neat role models.

I would say it is highly improbable that this history and my desire to be dominated, humiliated and hurt are unconnected. The kind of things that turn me on often emulate my unpleasant past experiences. However, I don't actually know this, which is driving me insane. I'm hoping someone might have some insight on that. From a biopsychological point of view, it makes sense - children have a survival instinct to mold themselves to what their parents wish them to be in order to ensure that their parents take care of them. See also Stockholm Syndrome.

Also, an experience in adulthood appears to have affected my turn-ons. I was held prisoner for a year by a man who took my virginity and disciplined me very bdsm style (minus the consent). His main tactic was to shut me in a box when I was not obedient. I have since developed a fantasy for being kept in a cage. Coincidence? Possibly, since I get a bit of a panic attack whenever I see a suitably sized box and that's definitely no turn-on.

I am really, really, really dying to know what psychological effect bdsm has on a person. Is it harmful? Is it therapeutic? None of the above? Am I exploiting my boyfriend for the sake of vain self-loathing by taking part in it with him? Would it be possible to "get rid of it" and start enjoying vanilla sex? Or is it just harmless fun?

Sorry for airing dirty laundry. I just can't keep this down any longer. I need answers.

[ValKyrie]

I have met a number of people who are involved in D/s who have a history of abuse. I have also met many other people in vanilla relationships with the same history. There are arguements both ways.

My opinion, for what it is worth:

Certainly, our upbringing could impact our desires, but should not dictate them.

By that, BDSM should NEVER be used in as therapy for past issues, issues that need to be dealt with. If you have unresolved issues surrounding the abuse, you need to see a therapist, do for yourself and make yourself healthy and complete before taking the emotional risks attached to humiliation play.

I found your comments regarding the female role models in your life interesting. I want to tell you that D/s should never be about ruining yourself for another. A healthy D/s relationship promotes growth, health, happiness and self efficacy.

So, could your history have anything to do with your current desires? Sure.

Could your history be the prevailing reason for your desires? Possibly. But if so, leave those desires behind and get some support and assistance in recognizing and dealing with whatever emotional scars remain.

Best wishes to you,

Mistress Val

[Mobius]

Well I certainly hope the person that held you prisoner is spending some quality time with a guy named Bubba but in Luxembourg I guess his name would be Helmut Say 25 years experiencing anal rape is a suitable punishment for what you went through.

I have read of 2 women that were held in Russia were they were abducted when they were teens repeatable raped and impregnated tortured until they were discovered when they were 28. There was also A woman in the US that was held in a box under this guys bed for over 10 years. She eventually felt that she belonged there. She visited her family went shopping but returned to her box under the bed. Never said any thing of her captivity. She was Finlay found the Captor thrown in the clink. She wrote a book that I have been trying to find. Don't imagine it being very erotic.

As for me, I was never abused and I never or have never abused any one. I guess that make's me a self made perv.
I can remember getting a woody during an episode of the thunder birds were the Puppets were tied up.(Hey I was only 8 what do you want). I also had a Major thing for Emma Peal in the avengers. Loved that Iron corset.

I am very sorry that my fantasy was your reality. It has always been a thing for me to possess a female sub. To remove her identity to control her completely.

You can rest assured that it will remain an unfofilled fantasy. Unless of course I win the Lottory and get 300 million. Then all bets are off. But seeing that I dont play the lottory, Female submissives accross the world can rest safe tonight.

[spike]

I would say it is highly improbable that this history and my desire to be dominated, humiliated and hurt are unconnected. … From a biopsychological point of view, it makes sense - children have a survival instinct to mold themselves to what their parents wish them to be in order to ensure that their parents take care of them.

Adolescents also have a survival instinct to ignore their parents if they are clearly wrong. This is what causes young ‘rebels without a cause’. That instinct has been triggered without a focus. Cultural evolution depends on the two instincts.

Some people get their interest in BDSM your way - the man with the box probably more than the boot on the head which is not very sexual. Some get it by rebelling against restrictive parents, trying anything their parents would hate. Some get it by really wanting to be what their parents wanted – that’s where the service-oriented d/s stuff comes from I would guess. (Anyone got any evidence?)

The big point is, that while it is nice to work out how you came to be who you are, it is much nicer to accept who you are, to celebrate who you are, and to have fun whoever you are.

Spike

[ValKyrie]

Good post, Spike.

I do think many of us finding the lifestyle later on in life, spend an awful lot of time trying to understand "why" rather than being able to simply enjoy our discovery.

For me, it took me a couple of years to actually stop questioning myself, who I was and the choices I made. Once I had rid myself of much of my vanilla thinking, I was able to enjoy and embrace the Me that had been latent for so long.


I wish the same for everyone entering the lifestyle as it the journey is troublesome, but the destination is peace and happiness.

[spike]

Thanks, Val. That post had a lot more in it in draft, all sorts of theory about how cultural evolution works but it all went when I looked at the last paragraph and realised most of the rest was made irrelevant by it. Party on!

Spike

[mythicat]

Noone has yet been able to prove any of the many theories behind why we like who or what we like, sexually speaking. Someone else who went through exactly what you did might have the opposite reaction and become dominant or sadistic themselves, refusing to let anyone else ever control them again; another might develop a foot fetish from focusing on the image of their father's foot in a position of power over them; a third may become asexual, fearing people too much to allow for intimacy; and a fourth could turn out completely vanilla in their tastes. I suspect there won't be any answers for a long time if ever. And maybe that's for the best. Personally I like a little mystery in my universe.

Also, an experience in adulthood appears to have affected my turn-ons. I was held prisoner for a year by a man who took my virginity and disciplined me very bdsm style (minus the consent). His main tactic was to shut me in a box when I was not obedient. I have since developed a fantasy for being kept in a cage. Coincidence? Possibly, since I get a bit of a panic attack whenever I see a suitably sized box and that's definitely no turn-on.

Reminded me a little of dreaming...how often our subconscious minds create dream scenarios in which we relive events or emotions or even stupid little mundane things we see on tv as a way to try to file and process the information. Maybe your cage fantasy could be something along those lines. Or maybe not. Just a little bubblegum for your brain.

[redEva]

Dear,

All the comments and responses you got so far are accurate and truthful, hopefully it will help you understand your own situation better.

There are few other threads on the board that are trying to find the answer to the same question you are posing.

I don’t think we (or anyone else for that matter) managed to come up with the reason why do we enjoy our particular kinks, and whether this behaviour is more of a nature or nurture. One thing, though, I feel needs to be stressed out is that with your history (little that we now know off) and your obvious pattern of thinking and questions that are arousing from it; ONLY safe and sane decision would be to try to find a professional who is “BDSM friendly” and who could help you answer the questions you have. Just as (I assume) you would not try to use ballet as a therapy for some emotional issues – you should not use BDSM for it.

You might have the affinity for it, that would have brought you into the lifestyle no matter what your past is, but you need to understand and deal with traumas you were put through, so that you can put that behind you, and enjoy what ever your chosen life style might be.

My very close friend was molested and sexually abused from when she was 2 till she was 9. Now she is 50 and still dealing with it. Human beings can survive hell, but healing is long and hard process.

I wish you all best, I hope you find the answers you are looking for and peace with yourself.

Brightest Blessings

P.S. few links
How did you find out about BDSM?
Does an interest in BDSM indicate a pattern of abuse in earlier life?
psychology

[Velvet Starblue]

I understand where you're coming from. I too was abused as a kid, by my dad. It can all get very confusing sometimes. I'm adding a summary of what happened to me later in life that changed me; I posted this in my blog a while back. Although I do give details here, most of it is my amateur attempt at psychological analysis. I don't want to upset anyone who has been abused... my experience is VERY unusual. If someone feels this is in the wrong section of the board then I apologise, so let me know and if necessary I'll move the post. I'm new here still so am not sure as to whart goes here and what doesn't.

Songs of Experience (not so much Innocence)
I'm sure poor William Blake would be spinning in his grave if he knew that someone on this site was misquoting his titles as I just did... although Lord Byron probably would approve.

Here's something from a female perspective, speaking from personal experience... now this, OBVIOUSLY, does not work for all women as we are all so different. It works for me, I know that for sure!

Rape is obviously about power, and control. On the victim's part, within fantasies and role play, it can also be about absolving responsibility and being forced to do what one secretly longs for or wants to experiment with. I would never have expected to like being violated, let along react the way I did. It's not something I've ever talked about much before, and it's an experience I'm still adjusting to, in some ways.

Going through all this has changed me. I feel that it is for the better, as I have learned so much about myself and others. Although I am, generally speaking, more guarded and careful because of what happened, it's opened various aspects of my sexuality that I never would have explored otherwise, and on the whole this has been good fun, although confusing.

I've gone on about it before in this blog, but didn't really concentrate on the psychological effects of being raped - which, is essentially what it was - but enjoying it. Now that really WAS confusing, to say the least.

The guys who got hold of me tied me up and went down on me first, forcing me to orgasm a few times... a battle which I did my best to fight, but lost. When they'd exhausted me, they had me, making me do whatever they wanted. Their justification of this was that as they'd taken the time to make me enjoy it, they could be as rough and brutal with me as they wanted to. They were. I'd always prefered gentler sex until then... so the fact that I came several more times, while being thoroughly degraded and treated like a piece of meat, really messed my head up for ages.

Afterwards, there was a vast amount of guilt and confusion on my part. As far as I'm concerned, rape is the worst thing that can happen to a woman. I've always believed that. It's one of these ridiculous myths that women secretly enjoy the REALITY, as opposed to the fantasy, of being raped. It is, generally speaking, such a horrendous experience.

With me it was very different because they made sure I was spent, so I was aroused to the extent that I couldn't stop myself enjoying it. I guess I really was very lucky in some ways, and it must be very tough for other women who have been badly hurt and traumatised to see me here, going on about how good it felt to be forced into something that I hadn't wanted. By making me come, the guys took away my dignity and threw my belief system up the creek for a fair while. Also, I never had rape fantasies before this happened to me, but have loved reliving my experiences ever since.

The most humiliating, and yet also the most liberating aspect of the experience was being forced to lose control completely, despite my pleading with them to let me go. I was made to react in such a personal and intimate way, to something brutal that I'd always despised and feared. By the end of the rape, I was begging them to stop and begging for more all at once. I still feel somewhat ashamed, that something like this excited me. The fact is, it did, and it still does.

Although it was quite hard to come to terms with what these guys did to me, I think in the longrun it really did help me open my mind a little and cope with shit from my past. I don't want to give the impression that they would have stopped - nothing would have stopped them from raping me that night. I didn't get any choice as to whether they did or not. Initially I struggled so much that they tied me up to make me submit, although I pleaded with them not to. It was a case of shutting up and dealing with it really, being their plaything for as long as they wanted. I can't say I was particularly frightened, because I knew them so well and I knew they wouldn't become violent enough to seriously damage me, so I did have some form of safety net there, but that was dependent upon trust - that in itself was a big mindfuck. It's kind of difficult to keep your trust in men who are forcing you into something you don't want to do, even if you feel damn sure they won't get carried away enough to hurt you much.

They took a lot of pleasure in manipulating how I reacted to them. I remember psychologically trying very hard not to let my body repond - I felt like I shouldn't let myself enjoy it because I didn't want it, and I kept telling them to stop... at which point they became more insistent. I was getting hotter and hotter and I felt as though, if I let them make me come, I'd lose my self-respect. Struggling to keep control of myself and ultimately losing that battle was confusing to say the least.

I had to deal with the fact that (as they correctly kept telling me at the time) regardless of what I said, I just couldn't ignore how good it felt after a while. It became far too intense a but I had no choice. IAlthough it was a shock, being forced to lose control felt better than anything I've ever experienced - I could let go of my inhibitions and not be responsible, which I think is why a lot of women enjoy rape fantasy.

They all had me several times and it was incredible. They'd taken me to the point where all I wanted was to feel them force me into submission and to lie helpless while they fucked me again and again. It was weird.

I felt dirty and very ashamed for enjoying it, but I was lucky in comparison to so many others. I wasn't beaten or hurt, so I felt I had no business being traumatised. One thing that really got to me was my reaction. I'd always enjoyed oral sex and being dominated, but nowhere near to that extent. If anyone had told me, prior to that night, that a man could force me to come I would never have believed it, particularly after what I went through as a kid. I learned to disassociate that experience from my earlier experiences because, this time, it had felt so good to be dominated.

Well, these guys opened my eyes. I'd never had rape fantasies before but after what they did to me, I've found that I have my most intense orgasms when I'm being coerced in a similar way. Lying there helpless while I was brutally taken was so intense.


I hope this hasn't upset anyone.

[2Tassel1Whip]

well thats what caused mine. you see, as a child my father would insert large objects (baseball bats, computer monitors, etc) into my supple anus, causing much pain but at the same time pleasure. he would then cockify my oral cavity three times in one second. this is, i believe, the cause for my love for bdsm

[kist]

My first real post other than an intro
I know that my past history ( some petting type sex abuse from a friends older brother when i was four) caused me to be sexualized early. I struggled for a long time as an adult with coming to terms - not because it was an awful experience but _because i liked it_. Took a therapist reminding me that our bodies are supposed to like sexual activities before i could forgive myself for liking it.
My family was also abusive. Not sexually but my dad was a raging alcoholic and my mom verbally abusive. I grew up defiant(inside) and independent ( the 'i dont need anyone' syndrome). That led to me being the strong one in my relationships. At least the perception was that i was strong - in reality i was just too afraid to let things 'just happen'. So i was actually controlling.
Jungian stuff helped ...as did Transactional Analysis (smiles..as mentioned earlier in the thread)
My D/s relationship has given me a safe place to act out . My Dom is able to love me unconditionally....although sometimes He struggles to know if what i need is a spanking or a cuddle. Problem being that i dont know how to express some feelings...and i'm sure thats left over from childhood. After all if you are trying to please everyone and always be perfect...how can you learn about your own self?
I also was not allowed to express anger as a child. Even now i'm not too good at it.
Thank the gods He's stronger than me lol.
I'm not sure this message is very coherant .... but i sure understand where the original poster is coming from...
kist

[alura]

You'd be surprised how many abused people end up here. I think it's because when you suffer from sexual abuse, especially as a child, you become somehow 'disconnected' from your sexuality.

The act of submission --- or dominating --- reconnects you again.

Before I found this lifestyle, I never fit. I just didn't.

Now I do.

To me, worrying about how you got here isn't important.

What is important is just EMBRACING it.....and learning to love yourself in the process.

You are who you are. It's as simple as that.

[slavelucy]

Firstly, i'm so sorry about some of your past experiences, it sucks.

There is a thread about this in this forum, called 'Does an interest in BDSM indicate abuse in earlier life?', i found it for ya, it's here:

http://www.bdsmlibrary.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1020

As you'll see on that thread, my overiding feeling on the matter is that one could never really know what parts of our past effect who we are, but, in the right circumstances, being involved in BDSM doesn't have to be something that should be worrying, whatever part of the reason for your interest is, it can turn something bad into something positive and enriching. i think what i mean is, the past isn't going to go away, so it's about proper and safe channeling.

Best regards to you.

lucy

[jaeangel]

There are times when i ask myself the same question.
I was adopted at eight months old and brought into the states by two people I call Mom and Dad. They never told me I was adopted (it finally came out when I was 22) but I think on some level I knew, because I was never treated the way a biological daughter would be treated (I think.) My mother was abusive...the incidents I remember most are the time I was ten and I got into her makeup, and one of her round brushes got tangled in my long hair. She was furious when she came home and found me with her hairbrush in my hair, and because she couldn't get it out, she grabbed the brush and literally dragged me down the hall and down stairs into the kitchen, where she proceeded to cut off all the hair that was caught with a steak knife. Then she took the scissors away that I was trying to even all of my hair off with and made me go to school for the rest of the week with big short and long patches in my hair. It was humiliating. The nuns (I was going to a cathiloc school at the time) were laughing, and so were all my classmates.
And then there was the time I was doing dishes and she came in to check if they were clean, and when she saw scratches on the bottom of one of her pots she went ballistic and chased me around the house waving a meat cleaver and telling me she was going to make me look like the pot. It wasn't even my fault, she found out later she'd made mashed potatoes and the electric blender left the same scratches on the bottom of the second pot that had been in the bottom of the first one. My father was never home. He said he was traveling for his company, and he'd be gone for months on end. only recently, when I hired a private investigator to find him, did I find out that he's now living in Virginia with another woman, has been snce he walked out on my family ten years agao, and his oldest child is now 18. I'm 25. this means that while I was getting beaten up and stuff, he was schmoozing with another woman and having kids with her. The bad part about it is that he's still married to my Mom.
Sorry. Just rambling. I don't have any answers to offer you, except to say that I wondered abut that for a while. Am I enjoying BDSM because it reminds me of my childhood, and did my desire to be humiliated and used stem from those childhood incidents? Do I need to be in an abusive relationship (I was in one out of high school that put me in the hospital before I got out of it) for me to feel like I'm worth something to someone? Eventually, finding no answers to any of those questions, I stopped analyzing and just did what feels good. I'm happily married now to a vanilla man with 2 wonderful baby boys, and I wouldn't change anything about me, because I like who I am. And those experiences I had made me who I am.
I don't know if this helps, but I just wanted you to know I wonder about the same thing you do. You're not alone; especially in this board, there are lots of like-minded people here who understand and are sympathetic, and will help you come to terms with the issues you're fighting with. Hang in there!

[Pandora's Box]

I've been reading this topic... and to be honest I haven't been sure what to say until now.

We are, at least to some extent, a product of our environment. The human mind works in many mysterious and weird ways.

I even think that my needs as an adult tie into my needs that weren't met when I was a child.

But there is one question that keeps coming back to me.

Why does it even matter. I'm not being flipplant or glib. I just speak as someone that was so busy for a period of over 10 years wondering "why"... that I forgot the "how".

I could tell you, indepth, the "why's" of many of the things that makes me who I am and what I like. I can even point directly to individual instances and follow the string of events from those instances.

And while I do think it's important to have some kind of basic knowledge of "why"... it's not nearly as important as setting it aside and dealing with the now. Some will argue that you have to know the "why" in order to deal with things. To be honest... I'm not so sure. Not beyond the basics at least.

After a while it becomes like picking at a wound.

I've spent a lot of time living in the past. And it wasn't understanding "why" things happened that brought me out of it. In fact it was delving into "why" for so long that put me into a state of near catatonia.

It was being exposed to healthy attitudes and having access to a supportive network of friends that pulled me out of my "why" stupor - helped me to face reality. Those are the things that helped me stand up and deal with myself.

It is entirely possible to be healthy and balanced and still have an interest in bdsm. With and without abuse in your past.

I don't know... to me it is only of minor importance what got you to where you are now. It's what you intend to do with it and where you want to take it from here that counts.



My $ .02

[aou]

this thread made me register. just wanted to say that reading the posts about past abuse made me very very sad. violence between adults is bad enough, but the fact that parents do such things to their children, or adults to children under their care, is terrible. if i met such an adult, i'd probably lose my temper, finally.

that said, i myself enjoy the submissive role without any notable prior experience of abuse. although i suppose my tastes are relatively mild (bondage, light pain, always in a sexual context / situation).

i also enjoy the dominant role, if there's a submissive to enjoy it. (and i only like to give what i like to receive, no more -- happens to be a rule of mine with regular gift-giving, go figure.)

[duktig flicka]

Thank you all so much for your kind and insightful comments. You were all very helpful. I'm actually hoping to carry out some research on this far too neglected subject once I get to grad school.

Mobius, Emma Peel kicks much ass. Now quit turning me on.

jaeangel, you're not rambling, hon. I'm so sorry for what happened to you. If you need to talk about it at all, please let me know.

[masterkurt]

I read this thread with utmost interest and would share most of the analysis made and things that have been said. Real abuses in real life offend us all, especially if carried out against children and minors....

As far as my personal experiences are concerned, I did not come across any case of submissive woman with a story of abuses and mistreatments in her past.... on the contrary, my female submissive partners seemed to all come from very caring and loving families and their desires of submission and abuse seemed very a personal matter. On the contrary, I met a few women with a past of abuses and they were not inclined towards submission at all.....

This is just a very scarse statistic and may be non significant at all. On the other hand I do not have a suitable knowledge in psicology to find out a cause-effect relation in the familiar history of my submissive partners and their masochistic inclinations.

Having said all this, I could not avoid considering the events we read in duktig flicka's autobiographical flash also under a different perspective....

Couldn't it be possible that her latent submissive desires and masochistic inclinations have been, at least to a certain extent, the CAUSE and not the consequence of the peculiar way she lived certain events of her life?

The ballet world, for instance ..... certainly a very demanding environment, but is it really such that pupils are willfully constantly abused and that every man in that milieu is a sadist and " every female destroying herself to please them" ?

If this was true, only truly submissive and masochistic females would stand and survive ballet schools and become professional dancers.... (I have to look for a dancer) ....

Personally I also don't believe that an adult, kept prisonner against his will and submitted to non consensual BDSM practises may ever develope a turn on for being jailed and disciplined ...

My 2 cents of wisdom could be so summarized:

If you find SM play enjoyable and you feel it enriches your sexual life, without causing you stress or guilt feelings, just go on practising it (in the usual recommended safe and consensual way)

If you think that your interest for BDSM is connected with your history of past abuses and that you still suffer from psycological wounds connceted with those events, then, do not try to use BDSM as some kind of do-it-yourself treatment. Rather look for professional help to look into yourself and to find a way to overcome those ghost from your past.

[Kapital_Dee]

It is entirely possible to be healthy and balanced and still have an interest in bdsm. With and without abuse in your past.

Question: Who has never had abuse in the past? Unless you have been in a coma or had the perfect parents, perfect family, went to the perfect school. We all have had some form of abuse some less extreme than others but abuse none the less.

[chromedome11]

Question: Who has never had abuse in the past? Unless you have been in a coma or had the perfect parents, perfect family, went to the perfect school. We all have had some form of abuse some less extreme than others but abuse none the less.

I disagree. I wasn't abused as a child, and I didn't abuse my kids. While still too common, I think abuse is much less prevalent than you're stating.

[lauraarmina]

I am sure that my present interests stem from an event that I experienced when I was twelve.I am not an author so please excuse my lack of story telling skills. I was staying at my Aunts house for the summer and one day her daughter,Pam, (who was the same age as me) and I got caught trying to steal sweets from our local shop.We were taken back to my aunts and made to admit to her what we had done. After she had promised the shop-keeper that she would deal with the matter we were sent to our respective rooms. A little while later we were summoned into the lounge and made to stand before her while she berrated us for our actions. At the end of our 'telling-off' she told me that I could either be punished now with Pam or I could wait for her to tell my parents when I went home.......being more scared of my dad than my aunt I chose the former option. Quite calmly she said that she was going to spank our bare bottoms and that we were to get undressed. Although my mind was in a whirl, it was obviously the accpeted punishment in this household because, with the exception of complaining that she didn't want to do it in front of me, a complaint quickly dismissed by her mother, Pam didn't seem shocked by the order.
Although I have a vivid memory of the actual event, the emotional aspects were and still are a blur. I know that I felt embaressed standing naked in front of my cousin and aunt but my arousal at the situation was all too plain to see. Was the arousal the result of my embaressment or was I embaressed at being aroused? All I know is that watching my naked cousin being held over my aunts lap while she had her bottom spanked is the singal most exciting thing I have ever seen. Even when I caught my aunt looking at me with a smirk on her face I still had to keep watching. After Pams spanking was over and she was sent back to her room, my aunt called me toward her and pulled me over her lap. During the spanking she gave me she kept saying how she knew that I had enjoyed seeing Pam nude and what a dirty and naughty boy I was. After my spanking when she told to get up. As I did so she grabbed my penis saying "I suppose you will play with yourself now?" That was it, the moment her hand touched me I came. I could hardly breath. She said nothing......just gave my penis a squeeze and looked at her cum soaked hand. After what seemed an eternity but was probabley only a minute or so, she just smiled and told me to go to bed. The fact that I masburated that night was used by my aunt on a number of occassions as a precursor to similar punishment sessions throughout that summer. Despite my best attempts, I could never draw Pam into a discussion about her feelings on that afternoons events athough I would love to know how she felt.
The strange thing is that it was seeing her get spanked that turned me on the most and still does. Maybe my interest in punishing submissive girls and women is the thought that they will experience the same embaressant and shame that Pam and I felt.......shame at being nude; shame at being punished and shame at being aroused by it all. I would be interested to hear of others first experiences and their reactions to them. [sr@btconnect.com[e-mail]

[Prpackaged]

There are times when i ask myself the same question.
I was adopted at eight months old and brought into the states by two people I call Mom and Dad. They never told me I was adopted (it finally came out when I was 22) but I think on some level I knew, because I was never treated the way a biological daughter would be treated (I think.) My mother was abusive...the incidents I remember most are the time I was ten and I got into her makeup, and one of her round brushes got tangled in my long hair. She was furious when she came home and found me with her hairbrush in my hair, and because she couldn't get it out, she grabbed the brush and literally dragged me down the hall and down stairs into the kitchen, where she proceeded to cut off all the hair that was caught with a steak knife. Then she took the scissors away that I was trying to even all of my hair off with and made me go to school for the rest of the week with big short and long patches in my hair. It was humiliating. The nuns (I was going to a cathiloc school at the time) were laughing, and so were all my classmates.
And then there was the time I was doing dishes and she came in to check if they were clean, and when she saw scratches on the bottom of one of her pots she went ballistic and chased me around the house waving a meat cleaver and telling me she was going to make me look like the pot. It wasn't even my fault, she found out later she'd made mashed potatoes and the electric blender left the same scratches on the bottom of the second pot that had been in the bottom of the first one. My father was never home. He said he was traveling for his company, and he'd be gone for months on end. only recently, when I hired a private investigator to find him, did I find out that he's now living in Virginia with another woman, has been snce he walked out on my family ten years agao, and his oldest child is now 18. I'm 25. this means that while I was getting beaten up and stuff, he was schmoozing with another woman and having kids with her. The bad part about it is that he's still married to my Mom.
Sorry. Just rambling. I don't have any answers to offer you, except to say that I wondered abut that for a while. Am I enjoying BDSM because it reminds me of my childhood, and did my desire to be humiliated and used stem from those childhood incidents? Do I need to be in an abusive relationship (I was in one out of high school that put me in the hospital before I got out of it) for me to feel like I'm worth something to someone? Eventually, finding no answers to any of those questions, I stopped analyzing and just did what feels good. I'm happily married now to a vanilla man with 2 wonderful baby boys, and I wouldn't change anything about me, because I like who I am. And those experiences I had made me who I am.
I don't know if this helps, but I just wanted you to know I wonder about the same thing you do. You're not alone; especially in this board, there are lots of like-minded people here who understand and are sympathetic, and will help you come to terms with the issues you're fighting with. Hang in there!

I think that this is an interesting part of the thread. The original question was about the possibility of abuse being a root cause of a desire to be involved in BDSM. I would think that this is more of a control issue. From what I have read, in a loving BDSM relationship the control lays with the submissive, (think safe word). The part of this post that then stands out would be the facts of adoption. When adopted quite young there is a very strong desire to be in control. We are safest when we control. We control as a sub by allowing or disallowing our dom to act. I would want to ask those who are subs if they feel this strong urge to maintain that control. As a black market baby (bought for $300 at 2 days) I really want to be in control. I do not think that being involved in BDSM stems from abuse as much as it may stem from that need to control or be controled.

Too many random thoughts. Sorry

[death penguin]

The first girl I "hooked up" with in college had a similar complex going on, though not as extreme. She was half Iranian and half Iraqi, with very strict parents that shielded her from everything and had control over everything she did (if she told them we were dating, they would expect me to marry her). She was also breaking up with a guy who she practically worshipped during her teenage years- she met him when she was 16 and he was 27. He had cheated on her numerous times, but she still stayed with him for years- until she got to college.

No big suprise, she turns out to have some serious complexes. In the daytime, she liked being "difficult," and stressed about her work constantly. However, in bed she was extremely submissive- she wanted me to slap her and call her "daddy's little whore" during sex; I could see where she was getting the impulse from. I ended that relationship pretty quickly; I knew that she was used to being dominated in every part of her life, and it felt wrong for me to fuel her complexes.

Just my opinion- I would say that you should enjoy doing what you like, so long as you (and your partner) do it out of love, instead of you just feeling that you are fulfilling a "role" set in early childhood.

[punksub]

I am really, really, really dying to know what psychological effect bdsm has on a person. Is it harmful? Is it therapeutic? None of the above? Am I exploiting my boyfriend for the sake of vain self-loathing by taking part in it with him? Would it be possible to "get rid of it" and start enjoying vanilla sex? Or is it just harmless fun?
.

my past history is very similar to yours and am a psychology major. bdsm in general is not harmful when kept sane safe and consensual. i have found bdsm to be very theraputic. My father was extremely abusive, physically and verbally and the things that hated are now some of the things take most pleasure in such as being hurt or verbally degraded. Since i have met my Mistress i have been able to come to terms with very many things that have happened. for me....i have had certain flashbacks in the middle of a scene which can be a very scary thing for the sub or the Dom/Domme. It seems to be a really bad thing to happen but these flashbacks for me have been repressed memories. After acknowledging these memories without trying to, i have been able to come closer and closer to not letting anything that has happened to me effect my thoughts in anyway. i have made sure the my Mistress knows of these things so She knows that there is a possibility to encounter these. It is good that your Dom/Domme know about your background especially if you were abused in any way. I hope any of this helps you.

[Chuckdom19]

I need to get some things off my chest in order to be able to ask a question I really need to ask. These have always been deep, dark secrets that I have not shared with anyone - except for my boyfriend in a very vague manner - so please forgive me if I'm not handling this appropriately.

The basic question is twofold: Why do I enjoy bdsm and is it harming me? Then there's the background. My dad was very sadistic and had a Dr. Jekyl and Mr. Hyde personality. He was prone to losing his temper out of the blue, at which time he became violent towards me and did humiliating things like throwing me to the floor and pinning my face down with his foot.

I was also pretty isolated growing up. I had to be home-schooled as I was training as a pre-professional ballet dancer full time since I was 8. You may or may not know that the ballet industry endorses teachers and directors to verbally and emotionally abuse dancers constantly. Less than perfection in performance and appearance was not tolerated and anyone who came over 105-110 lbs at the weekly public weigh-ins could look forward to several weeks of hell till she shed that fat.

As such, every male I saw when I was growing up was sadistic and every female was destroying herself to please them. Neat role models.

I would say it is highly improbable that this history and my desire to be dominated, humiliated and hurt are unconnected. The kind of things that turn me on often emulate my unpleasant past experiences. However, I don't actually know this, which is driving me insane. I'm hoping someone might have some insight on that. From a biopsychological point of view, it makes sense - children have a survival instinct to mold themselves to what their parents wish them to be in order to ensure that their parents take care of them. See also Stockholm Syndrome.

Also, an experience in adulthood appears to have affected my turn-ons. I was held prisoner for a year by a man who took my virginity and disciplined me very bdsm style (minus the consent). His main tactic was to shut me in a box when I was not obedient. I have since developed a fantasy for being kept in a cage. Coincidence? Possibly, since I get a bit of a panic attack whenever I see a suitably sized box and that's definitely no turn-on.

I am really, really, really dying to know what psychological effect bdsm has on a person. Is it harmful? Is it therapeutic? None of the above? Am I exploiting my boyfriend for the sake of vain self-loathing by taking part in it with him? Would it be possible to "get rid of it" and start enjoying vanilla sex? Or is it just harmless fun?

Sorry for airing dirty laundry. I just can't keep this down any longer. I need answers.

This is the place to air it! Lots of intelligent, sympathetic ears around here... and folks who won't judge.

Let me tell my story. No abuse, 12 years of parochial education, loving spouse. BDSM is in my life because it attracted me. I like being domme'd now and again; is it because the nuns whacked my knuckles? don't know, but I doubt it. My wife was 12 years publicly educated, and her dad was a minister his whole life. She likes to switch, sometimes top, sometimes bottom, like me.

You ran into some bad, horrible, intolerable experiences. I'm sure a therapist could give you gentle, understanding assistance; there's no shame in getting medical help.

Can you "get rid of it"? Likely, you could change your lifestyle. Likely you could change your friends. Would you be happy? Maybe so. But it's kind of like loving a certain kind of candy. You can go months, years without it. But get half a chance to get that candy and you'll grab it eagerly. You might just be causing trouble for yourself in the future.

Are you in a safe, positive relationship now? If so, why not live your life the way you want to? There are thousands of good, safe, loving relationships for each bad one --- much like everything in life. Once you realize that out of every hundred people, 98 are folks who work every day, don't kick their dogs or beat their partners, pay their taxes on time, and are folks who would lose at poker and pay up with a smile. The other 2 of the hundred make so much trouble that they make you forget about the 98. Live your life as you wish, dear heart. Get the help you need from a minister or a councillor; you may have more favorable results from a professional though, for obvious reasons (smile).

Please; if you need to talk further, do. Your need is real.

[Spitman]

The basic question is twofold: Why do I enjoy bdsm and is it harming me? Then there's the background. My dad was very sadistic and had a Dr. Jekyl and Mr. Hyde personality. He was prone to losing his temper out of the blue, at which time he became violent towards me and did humiliating things like throwing me to the floor and pinning my face down with his foot.

I am really, really, really dying to know what psychological effect bdsm has on a person. Is it harmful? Is it therapeutic? None of the above? Am I exploiting my boyfriend for the sake of vain self-loathing by taking part in it with him? Would it be possible to "get rid of it" and start enjoying vanilla sex? Or is it just harmless fun?

My own experience was one of discovery during my early life. I remember enjoying games of cowboys and indians where a girl got tied up, long before I knew anything about sex. There was nothing in my family background that explains my predilection for bondage. The first time I experienced sexual pleasure was while climbing a rope. That was a coincidence. Spending most of my adolescence out of contact with girls led to experimentation with self bondage, but I might have done it anyway. It taught me a lot about the way physical sensations and fantasies can enhance sexual experiences. I do not feel that I have to mistreat women. Rather I enjoy teasing them with fantasies and sensations. I have always enjoyed 'vanilla' sex. I just find that the other kind is more satisfying in every way.

The other replies in this section tell much the same story. It seems that most of us are this way because we are, not because someone or something made us so. Also I have found that many people in the vanilla world out there enjoy bdsm just as much. They just lack the knowledge and creative imagination to dream it up for themselves. They respond just as powerfully to bdsm fantasies. I think some of the fantasy themes resonate deep in our minds because of associations that go back to early human history.

I know that there are people who feel the need to be treated in a particular way because they were abused, and blame themselves for that. They want to be hurt, sometimes they harm themselves physically and may be suicidal. I have encountered women who wanted to be abused in internet role play and admitted to having been abused in real life. There are people who want to be humiliated because they don't feel they deserve any better. It may seem that they can't enjoy sex without it. I have had many personal accounts of this kind. I cannot prove that there was no psychological or other predisposition, but I do not believe that victims should blame themselves.

I see a major difference between the kind of humiliating and demeaning treatment that converts a sub into a mere creature of the dom while repressing her own personality completely, and mutual loving, caring enjoyment of bdsm fantasy and psychologically enhanced stimulation. For me bdsm is something to be enjoyed with mutual respect and understanding, and it is about understanding the physical and psychological triggers that enhance the sexual satisfaction of the partner.

Others have said that the why is unimportant, it is what you are that matters. My view is that if bdsm enhances your enjoyment of sex, that is sufficient reason to do it. If your partner wants to please you, like anyone in a vanilla sexual relationship, teach him how. Do not go through the rest of your life feeling deprived of the kind of satisfaction you want.

[Eraser]

http://www.arizonapowerexchange.org/academia.htm

I would recommend everyone read the power dynamic essays and the apex survey on this site, they are both very interesting. One of the the commonality's I did find in each was a range of about 80% women who had been abused or raped that THEY felt was a foundation of there BDSM practices.

One of the things to consider in the application of past abuse = current BDSM interest is to think of Pavlovian conditioned response and the second is Maslow’s Hierarchy of Needs. Upbringing is strong conditioning, if that conditioning included abuse then it may have set the ground work for your interest now. But your interest now is not abuse, its something totally different and not to be viewed in the same light at all. I would (as had been said many many times before this) recommend PROFESSIONAL help if you feel that your past abuse is currently effecting your sexuality. If your in Southern California I know to Therapist that are very BDSM friendly.

[Chuckdom19]

My own experience was
(snip)
satisfaction you want.

Very well stated.

[sweet_candle]

Thank for having shared with us your deep, dark secrets.
I've read your post very thoroughly; as a new-bye in this "very worried that current bdsm..." thread it took me a bit of time to write down an answer, but I'd like to put on the table some remarkable points.
Please forgive my rusty English speech, I am an Italian.

Let's start from what you've ran through in your life. Hard to bear. But you have survived.
This is, I think, a common rule of every kind of living: survive, survive, survive -a must in nature-!

So, now you act like you cannot help to live again the extreme experience you have escaped. A lot of people, having passed-by car accidents or other close-to-death troubles, have joined extreme or hard-endeavouring sports, maybe to live again strong emotionals feedbacks.
Every wound you take (both phisical and psycological) starts a response: the body make scars, trying to repair injured tissues or bones, the brain the same. In the common life you can see that every day. If needed, the body and the mind work aside to change their status and comply the environment: out from the skin this results in a temperature rise, a modify of the heart pulse or an increse in the water retention.

When you get a trauma, there is a new environment. Fear is the quickest way to alert you there is a brand-new situation, and it's dangerous. Pain is the flag to point that something has changed in a nasty way.
The inner of you realizes it very quickly, and try to adapt.
Aside the body, the mind urges to fix patches over every wound it has suffered, by developing its own structures and using them to protect itself, preventing damages by new blows. I think that's the main difference: the body can repair a damage, while the mind can repair and make up a sort of draft "preventive defense" against a new strike.
Every trauma can induce ("negative" and "positive" are used just as tag, with no moral value):

-a negative response [or "internal" reaction]: the subject falls deep in the fathom of himself, imploding the stress toward inside, and cutting relations with the external world, to avoid to live again the trauma

-a positive response [or "external" reaction]: the subject uses the experience to create a new system of values, that can be used again -if needed-, to survive again, better and in a more effective way the trauma

"During peace time, warriors struggle against themselves" (Nietzsche).

You have faced the beast. You won. Now it's hard to go back home and live family life. Simply, you can't. So, here you are the need to play bdsm.
Sorry, I don't think it' s possible to go back -just live it and enjoy it-. There's nothing wrong, if SSC. You don't harm anyone.

Reviewing your several postings, it seems that you have the attitude to share your story. You have written quite several excerpts, so you feel the need to talk about it and spread out what you have inside, also to cast in a frame all your experiences.
Maybe you can nurtur the art of writing...

:goldcup:

I need to get some things off my chest in order to be able to ask a question I really need to ask. These have always been deep, dark secrets that I have not shared with anyone - except for my boyfriend in a very vague manner - so please forgive me if I'm not handling this appropriately.

The basic question is twofold: Why do I enjoy bdsm and is it harming me? Then there's the background. My dad was very sadistic and had a Dr. Jekyl and Mr. Hyde personality. He was prone to losing his temper out of the blue, at which time he became violent towards me and did humiliating things like throwing me to the floor and pinning my face down with his foot.

I was also pretty isolated growing up. I had to be home-schooled as I was training as a pre-professional ballet dancer full time since I was 8. You may or may not know that the ballet industry endorses teachers and directors to verbally and emotionally abuse dancers constantly. Less than perfection in performance and appearance was not tolerated and anyone who came over 105-110 lbs at the weekly public weigh-ins could look forward to several weeks of hell till she shed that fat.

As such, every male I saw when I was growing up was sadistic and every female was destroying herself to please them. Neat role models.

I would say it is highly improbable that this history and my desire to be dominated, humiliated and hurt are unconnected. The kind of things that turn me on often emulate my unpleasant past experiences. However, I don't actually know this, which is driving me insane. I'm hoping someone might have some insight on that. From a biopsychological point of view, it makes sense - children have a survival instinct to mold themselves to what their parents wish them to be in order to ensure that their parents take care of them. See also Stockholm Syndrome.

Also, an experience in adulthood appears to have affected my turn-ons. I was held prisoner for a year by a man who took my virginity and disciplined me very bdsm style (minus the consent). His main tactic was to shut me in a box when I was not obedient. I have since developed a fantasy for being kept in a cage. Coincidence? Possibly, since I get a bit of a panic attack whenever I see a suitably sized box and that's definitely no turn-on.

I am really, really, really dying to know what psychological effect bdsm has on a person. Is it harmful? Is it therapeutic? None of the above? Am I exploiting my boyfriend for the sake of vain self-loathing by taking part in it with him? Would it be possible to "get rid of it" and start enjoying vanilla sex? Or is it just harmless fun?

Sorry for airing dirty laundry. I just can't keep this down any longer. I need answers.

[magicalnymph]

I can only speak for myself as I come from a very abusive childhood. I am an introvert by nature. So I am always looking for why I am who I am. And I do agree that life is much easier when one just accepts who they are instead of questioning it. Took me a lot of years to realize that. I have a degree in Psychology, which I can say is directly related to my trying to understand the past and the effects of it.

As I said I can only speak for myself...but I have asked myself many times if there was a connection between the past and my enjoyment in BDSM. The only connection for myself is that the past affects my limits. For me that means I have some limits that are harder to push and such. I want to enjoy myself not take myself back to that place. (hope ya understand what I mean). I can see the line between BDSM and abuse. My past helps me with that as well as my schooling and my understanding of BDSM. I did not learn submission from the abuse. I learn to hate. If anything the abuse taught me to be stronger in my mind. To respect myself more and to never be anyones doormat. I am not saying I haven't made mistakes along the way or that there haven't been times I fell into those old patterns. But the connection between the past abuse and BDSM is lost in the consent. You survived the past .You choose the future.

Thats just my opinion and well you know what they say.