about caning

[Andromeda]

I have a question about the use of the cane. When the buttocks are struck the first stab of pain seems to be followed by a second one like an echo some 6 to 8 seconds later. I read somewhere on the web that this is quite general and that the time interval doesn't vary from one person to another. Does anyone have any more specific information about this? Any help would be much appreciated. Thanks!

[Ladyvet]

I don't know the mechanism but I experience the echo, too. It might have something to do with some of the pain receptors being numbed by the blow, then reacting. I find the echo more pronounced in my breasts than my buttocks. I don't have as much padding upstairs. My back (especially my shoulder blades) and inner thighs don't echo blows. They burn, then ache.

[tallon]

I saw your posting about caning and found it interesting.. something to store away for future reference.
Do you have any expereince with use of a battery powered fence charger for electro shock play? Or the "bug zappers:?
My sub needs another level of distraction.
Thanks.. this is serious inquiry. I really am looking to learn rather than experiment.
Tallon

[bunnyrabbit48]

The echo is the fun part. It's the forming and expanding of the welts, thus, the expanding of the degree of pain.

That's why in the traditional british canning, there is a time gap for the person holding the cane to pause intentionally in between each stroke. He does that so that the sub can receive the full treatment of the echo part, in fact, the pause should be around 30 sec. When the sub fully feel the effects of that stroke, he then moved on to the next stoke.

[AmandasSpankee]

<drooling> I wish I could get caned, but Mistress has a thing about the sharp edges of some canes. I know we will do it sooner or later, I just wish it was sooner

Oh, well, maybe that can be my New Years Resolution.

[bdsmbill]

I am sure the formation of the welt may play some part, but the main reason for the echo effect has to do with how the nerves work. The sequence of events is like this: The cane hits, and the appropriate pain nerves fire, sending their message to the brain. The subject feels intense pain. Now, once nerves have fired, they cannot do so again until after a recovery period of a few seconds. When this period is up, since there is tissue damage at the site, they fire again. The echo may hurt more than the original, since nerves that have fired and recovered are hypersensitive for a brief time.

Now, there are several types of pain sensors, each reacting to a particular type of stimulus, shuch as pressure, heat, etc. Most methods of inflicting pain affect only one type. The reason electricity is so effective as a torture method is that it has the ability to fire all the pain nerves at once. Also, it does not damage them if used properly, so a few seconds later they are recovered and ready to fire again. If the shocks are timed exactly right they will hit just at the hypersensitive period.

[AmandasSpankee]

I had enough trouble getting Mistress to move from a flogger to a crop, and I'm still working on the cane. I don't think we'll being trying electroshock for a while - unless she gets angry enough to put my feet in water first!

[write4jetc]

Hey, I wouldn't do that - at least not on purpose ...

You're the clumsy one, not me. It wasn't my fault that you slipped into that pond in the park in Ottawa, while you were only wearing a real thin summer dress with no underwear - okay, the no undies was my fault, but not the slipping! You even scared the goldfish away

And it wasn't my fault that when I tied you to that big tree on your Dad's farm, that you choose a tree where birds like to flock. Even though you were gagged at the time, you could have let me know somehow ....

I dunno, the idea of a cane and electroshock are both getting more appealing all the time!

[Finding_Fantasy]

As I said in another post, canes really scare me and so does electro play now that you mention. Maybe being electrocuted has something to do with that? (I got zapped by a deep fryer cleaning machine and blew all the breakers. I had a headache for a weak and boy did my arm hurt)

I have heard too many horror stories about both. I like the crop though, Sylvie. I especially like floggers, coiled rope, and crops on my back. They seem to be the tools to use on that part of my body.

[LadyAmanda]

We have a crop that has ... almost like a flogger on the end of it. It's great for stand-up punishment, because the flogger part just curls around the body, and causes a little extra flare on the sides of its victim - delicious!

[GdRsDiamond]

<drooling> I wish I could get caned, but Mistress has a thing about the sharp edges of some canes. I know we will do it sooner or later, I just wish it was sooner

There is more than one way to cane a sub. It doesn't have to be bamboo, or other shredable woods, to be a caning. Our favorite canes come from home depo, the fiberglass sticks that are meant to open and close blinds. they hurt like the dickens, and they do not easily break. When they do finaly break, they snap cleanly in half without leaving any part of themselves in the subs bottom.
My favorite switches are harder to find and most be stolen when one is lucky enough to run across them. The little flags the utility company sticks in the group to mark thier lines are usually on metal stakes, and that wont do, becuase those rust. But occasionally you find them on the plastic stakes.. and they are viscouis. The thckest of them are smaller than your little finger and leave naster bruises even through jeans.. the thinnest ones, used on bare skin, will draw blood with every strike. I stare at every place the flags are out in hoping to find some to steal and ad to my collection! Yum!

GdRsDiamond

[kittenfemme]

Originally posted by GdRsDiamond
Our favorite canes come from home depo, the fiberglass sticks that are meant to open and close blinds. they hurt like the dickens, and they do not easily break. When they do finaly break, they snap cleanly in half without leaving any part of themselves in the subs bottom.

*shudder* I'm deathly afraid of canes too Finding_Fantasy. I hate them! I'm sure to tell any perspective Domme exactly that. They tend to use them as a last resort to make me behave.

That said, I second all of the bit about blind actuation rods, especially the hurting like the dickens part! And they do break cleanly. I've had two broken across my bum. Ow, ow, ow, ow, ow, ow, OW! Forget the sam in me, I was THE BEST little girl for easily two weeks after each time!

[Jones, Nikka]

I was once severely caned with a piece of fiberglass tubing. I learned that this type of cane is only for those who like deep and I really mean deep pain!
Because of the thickness and flexibility of the rod the welts were not too bad (only about 10 days to disappear), but the internal bruising was paralizing. I could still feel the effects of a baker's dozen after three weeks
The added bonus was the wickedly shrill whistling sound that preceded each stroke (air escaping from the tube's interior at an awesome speed). To this day just the thought of that sound sends a shiver down my spine and an electric shock to my pussy

[kittenfemme]

Originally posted by Jones, Nikka
To this day just the thought of that sound sends a shiver down my spine and an electric shock to my pussy

Oh! I can well imagine! Just reading your description of it did a little of the same for me just now. But were you really still sore after three weeks !?!?! Ow!

I tend to be the opposite. I've been caned, and rather roughly I might add, but I don't think I've ever felt it for more than two weeks... usually only for a week and a half. The bruises can stick around for up to a month though.

Gah! Have I mentioned that I hate canes? *shudder*

[Jones, Nikka]

Originally posted by kittenfemme
Oh! I can well imagine! Just reading your description of it did a little of the same for me just now. But were you really still sore after three weeks !?!?! Ow!

Yes I know three weeks sounds exagerated, but that was the result of having a not so experienced dominant do the caning. She managed to get about nine or ten strokes (out of thirteen) pretty much in the same spot.

If I live to be a hundred years old I will never forget that pain, nor the fact that I was able to bear it without calling a safeword.

The wonderful (and terrible) thing about canes is that they are one of the best implements of chastisement to take a sub into the "total pain" zone

[kittenfemme]

Originally posted by Jones, Nikka

The wonderful (and terrible) thing about canes is that they are one of the best implements of chastisement to take a sub into the "total pain" zone

I agree! Especially the terrible part.

[MrStefens]

Originally posted by AmandasSpankee
<drooling> I wish I could get caned, but Mistress has a thing about the sharp edges of some canes. I know we will do it sooner or later, I just wish it was sooner

Oh, well, maybe that can be my New Years Resolution.

Amandaspankee,
Should it be of any help, there are all different types of canes. Some are constructed with the small ridges where the bamboo has come together in its growth left when that are processed. However, canes can be purchased that have been sanded to smooth all the rough ridges away. The smaller and more whippy canes have less of these edges and may be more to your liking. I prefer these as they have much less chance of breaking the skin but leave beautiful narrow raised red welts and produce a sting that will make you want to jump out of your skin.

[woodsman'sgame]

I have never been caned. It just seems too painful. I can take pain, but .....
How does it compare to a belt, or a thin stranded whip, or a hard spanking by a very strong man, things I'm more familiar with?
All three of these can be quite painful, but all in different ways.

[-angelstar-]

what's the difference in the level of pain when using a belt as compared to bare hands?

[woodsman'sgame]

The pain from the belt is in one narrow strip, and it doesn't carry as much sting to it. The pain is acute, but because of its limited area, I seem to be able to take it better than the hand, which covers a much larger area and has more sting to accompany it.

I'm sure that he holds back a lot more on the belt too, which may explain why it hurts less. The problem with the belt, of course, is that it can cut and has the potential to scar, also it can bruise.
Recovery period is much longer for the belt too.

Of all three, I dread the hand the most, but it's the most often used because it's the safest and the most handy. hehe

And I don't even have the little bit of satisfaction of knowing that it hurts his hand too. His hands are very rough from his work and it doesn't hurt him to spank me.

I'm talking about a very strong man here, so it's not an average spanking. Woodsman was a linebacker in college.

[slavelucy]

i agree with you woodsman'sgame, the belt hurts lesss than the hand (but yes, is capable of more damage). i sometimes wonder tho if a Dom is less ferocious with the belt than with His hand, conscious somehow of the fact it could potentially cause more bruising/welts etc and because to Him the hand 'seems' less servere....whereas in actual fact it hurts more! Does that make any sense?

sl

[-angelstar-]

hmm.

interesting the replies come as a surprise actually. i always pick the hand over a belt or any other thing because i have this mentality that the hand hurts less

so maybe i'm wrong. maybe the next time i'll pick the alternative and give it a try

[slavelucy]

Originally posted by -angelstar-
hmm.

because i have this mentality that the hand hurts less

yeah, i do know what you mean, i think pyschologically (or something) the hand is less sort of severe and a bit more....erm, playful but i just find that it really really hurts! Still, i would rather have hand than the crop......

sl

[woodsman'sgame]

The hand brings your master in direct contact with you. That is the only reason I would prefer it. It is his/her touch not the touch of a thing. But the pain is greater.
I haven't had a crop used on me, but I can't imagine it would hurt more than a leather belt?

[slavelucy]

Originally posted by woodsman'sgame

I haven't had a crop used on me, but I can't imagine it would hurt more than a leather belt?

Hi Woodsmans - jesus, yes, it hurts more than a leather belt - i have always found it to be a very sharp pain which then burns a bit - particularly bad when hit with it in the same place a few times....i also find that a difference is that the crop causes some erm interesting marks on the skin far far quicker than the belt does.

i don't know whether everybody would necessarily concur with this tho, just my own personal views/experience of course.

sl

[woodsman'sgame]

hmm
Maybe it's time to do a little research, but not real sure I want to
be the subject.

Any volunteers?

[e.e. norcod]

A number of you are in interesting (and complex) relationships. Yes most of us men, especially those of us that are rather large and strong have interesting internal conflicts about hitting women. I can assure you from personal experience that a vigorously applied belt can cause a lot, lot more damage than a hand spanking. Obviously, your masters refrain from hitting you with full force with a belt although they are less inhibited about the rigor with which they hand spank. In that they are probably like me. I dislike inflicting buises and I have strong internal inhibitions about hitting a woman forcefully. I suspect that many of the same mechanisms that operate in my mind operate in the minds of your masters.

I have read the correspondence in this thread with bemused interest. This is because much of my professional career has involved studying damage to tissue and inflammation with the last decade and the half focusing on the skin. The response of the different structures in the skin to physical injury is exceedingly complex. It involves direct response of several types of nerves, direct responses of inflammatory cells, responses of inflammatory cells stimulated by nerves, direct responses of blood vessels and indirect responses of blood vessels stimulated by nerves and inflammatory cells. I keep threatening to write an essay on bruises for Jinn's Academy section and one of these days I will get around to it.

By the way, the deep pain persisting for a week or more was undoubtedly due to damage to the underlying muscle, possibly associated with some minor bleeding into the muscle (deep bruising). That is a sign that the caning was much too severe. Bruising muscle is a big no no in my book. One of the reasons I prefer the switch to the cane.

Also a botanical note. Disciplinary canes are invariably made from ratan. Although ratan is a member of the bamboo family, almost all species of bamboo are highly unsuitable for canes. In general most bamboos when subjected to lateral stress shatter longitudinally. Continuing to strike someone with a shattered bamboo cane will cause severe cuts. T. E. Lawrence aka Lawrence of Arabia was injured in this way while held captive by the Turks in 1917 and carried the scars with him until his death in the late 1930's. This is why ratan, with it unusual flexibility and resistance to shattering is the only species of bamboo suitable for canes.

[woodsman'sgame]

Thank you for the information e.e. norcord. I'm waiting for the info on bruising, by the way. =)
[

I can assure you from personal experience that a vigorously applied belt can cause a lot, lot more damage than a hand spanking.

Yes, I agree, its only because Woodsman holds back more on the belt, whip or other instruments that they end up hurting less.
[

Obviously, your masters refrain from hitting you with full force with a belt although they are less inhibited about the rigor with which they hand spank. In that they are probably like me. I dislike inflicting buises and I have strong internal inhibitions about hitting a woman forcefully. I suspect that many of the same mechanisms that operate in my mind operate in the minds of your masters.

And, yes, he has problems with hitting a woman, even though it turns him on. I'm aware that this part of our relationship is more difficult for him to deal with than for me.
Which brings me to a question I have had but was a little hesitant to voice. I'm new to this site as a member although I lurked for quite a while, but I thought there would be a little more discussion about the psychological problems with BDSM that some might experience. Perhaps they were dealt with earlier, or perhaps they are taboo, or perhaps most don't have them?

I read the threads sometimes and get the feeling that this lifestyle is absolutely no problem for most on this site. It makes me wonder. Maybe it's my age, coming from an era when sex was a taboo subject. (Yes, I know the "sexual revolution" was in the 60's but it never really hit rural America where I live until I was much older)

And sorry about going off the thread, but it was my natural train of thought

[e.e. norcod]

Feelings and emotions are difficult subjects for people to deal with. With time and age and insight you begin to realize that just because you have certain feelings that are perhaps not mainline it doesn't mean that you are crazy. Furthermore, even though we have certain fantasies, it doesn't mean that we always play them out in real life. An active fantasy life is probably a good thing. Working these things out in play (or in prose) probably contributes in an important way to good mental health.

[Curtis]

Has anyone tried willow withies? I mean branches, of course. Very thin (unless you use several in a bundle) and whippy. They CAN cut, but probably not, especially if care is used, or if used in a bundle, but they can FEEL like they're cutting you. It's a kind of sharp pain, but doesn't go deep and (shouldn't) keep hurting beyond a few days. Not much bruising, but they can welt easily. Other branches can have a similar effect, but tend to dry out quickly (and snap).