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I was talking with Tojo last night about sub drop, where you experience a feeling of flatness after a task or a session.
I would be interested in hearing of anyone's experiences with this, whether it happened to you or someone else.
Thanks
Aussiegirl
Hi Aussiegirl1...
I have experienced some of the physical and mental after-effects of sub drop. There is a floaty state that can last from several hours to a day afterwards followed by that flat, hollow feeling, a feeling that you are spent.
In my opinion, I don't think it applies to subs only, a form of it also affects doms.
I keep certain articles and links in a D/s folder on my computer and when I saw the topic, I had to find it. Do you think this article is helpful?
Sub Drop by David Williams
Sub Drop is a term used to describe the after effects of a scene, both physical changes in the submissive's body and mental and emotional results of the scene on the submissives mind. While the physical effects usually occur shortly after the scene, the mental and emotional drop may take days to manifest and thus are often not thought of as a result of the scene.
It is important to note that sub drop is not a sign of a bad scene or lack of enjoyment. Sub drop actually most often occurs after a very intense scene where the submissive completely releases and finds sub space and a sense of euphoria. Thus, in fact, the better the scene, the better the chance for sub drop of either kind.
Aftercare and attention to small signs can help identify sub drop quickly. Simply noticing different behaviour patterns or actions can make dealing with it much easier when caught in earlier stages. This is another reason why knowing your play partner is important.
Physical Sub Drop
Physical sub drop comes from two sources, sometimes mixed together, in some people they suffer one but not the other. Both are the result of the strenuous ordeal of a scene on the submissives body. While it may seem they just stand there and take it, in fact there is much going on and much energy being spent during a scene on the submissives part.
The first form of physical sub drop is a lowering of body temperature in the extremities, stiffness, numbness, and an over all tingling sensation. This is caused by a centralization of the bodies blood supply. The body sees the scene as a form of trauma and one of the first defence mechanisms for this in the human anatomy is to suck the blood supply into the main torso to protect the vital organs and brain.
The result of this action by the body is decreased blood flow to the arms and legs. This often results in very cold limbs after a scene and lack of sensations. When a submissives limbs are inordinately cold after a scene or when they complain of tingling, numbness, lack of sensation, stiffness, aches, or muscle cramps, these are often from lack of blood flow. A vigorous rubbing of the limbs will help to restore blood flow quickly.
Often this will leave a submissive wobbly after a scene and unsure of their grasp on items. If a submissive feels this way after a scene then it is best to have them sit down, legs extended and arms at their side while you rub the limbs to restore control. Crossing the legs or folding the arms can impede the return of blood flow and should be avoided. Laying down flat is a better way for this but is hard to do at play parties and such.
When rubbing the arms and legs, apply gentle pressure and release as you rub, this helps open the passages up to allow a greater blood flow. Cramps can be dealt with by applying a point of pressure to the direct area cramping, pushing in very gently and then releasing. This causes a fast flow of blood to sweep away the built up acids causing the cramp.
Understand that these physical manifestations are completely natural and not a weakness on the submissives part. Stretching out before a scene or after can also help lessen these effects somewhat but don't push too hard, a submissive can actually damage themselves by doing too much when their limbs lack full sensation. The basics work best, better to do small repetitive stretches rather then one big one.
Important Note: If the submissive is not in shape and used to stretching, do not expect her/him to suddenly be doing intense stretching before or after a scene. Stretching can tear muscles and stress tendons very easily.
The second form physical drop can take is the result of substances and chemicals in your body; namely, sugar, adrenaline, and endorphins. These naturally occurring substances interplay with one another to bring a gambit of results much akin to the after effects of a strenuous workout.
Eating a light high protein, low carbohydrate meal an hour or so before the scene can help alleviate a lot of symptoms, just make sure to have enough digestive time before you play and make sure not to over eat and be stuffed Lots of vegetables will also add nutrients that can help the submissive recover from a strenuous scene and of course, plenty of water before and after the scene will help as well.
When a submissive is scened often their body uses a great amount of energy. After the scene is over they will feel an intense craving for sweets. This is not bad, this is their body craving sugar to replace the energy lost during the scene. Sometimes this craving is accompanied by a shaky feeling. Sugar crashes can also bring about mood swings, grumpiness, irritability, and sadness in some cases.
The best rule of thumb to follow with this is: The simpler the sugar, the faster the results. Fructose, sugar found naturally in fruits, is easy for the body to metabolize and use fast. Apple juice, grape juice, any sort of natural fruit juice will help to restore the blood sugar level fast. Soda and processed sugar take longer to produce the same results but will eventually get the job done.
Adrenaline is often released during moments of pain and stress. It creates a feeling of energy and strength, often allowing a submissive to take more in a scene or to play longer then normal. When the adrenaline rush is over though, often it will bring about a feeling of weakness, shakes, and irritability.
Adrenaline is sort of like an octane booster in our bodies. It boosts the octane there already and causes the body to burn through the sugar in the system faster. Usually adrenaline crashes and sugar crashes occur together, once the body is no longer in overdrive, it has burned up a lot of energy and needs to replace it, fast.
Endorphins are released during periods of heavy muscular exertion or pain. Not surprisingly, they are often released during a good scene and tend to bring a very euphoric feeling to the submissive. When the effect passes though, the feeling of euphoria can crash into a feeling of melancholy. Imagine feeling no pain and just as blissful as can be and suddenly that is gone. You don't feel bad, but you don't feel as good any more either. By itself this crash will not often affect the submissive much but, in conjunction with the sugar and adrenaline crashes, it can enhance their results.
It should also be noted that replacing lost hydration (drinking a lot of water), replacing salts (drinking Gatorade) can also help with these things as well. Muscular cramps can be caused also by a loss of potassium in the system during play, eating a banana or drinking Gatorade will help restore this quickly. Think of the physical aftercare like that of an athlete after a tough competition. The submissives body will often crave the same care and refuelling as an athlete's would after a great exertion of effort.
After a scene and aftercare, it is common for submissives to feel hungry. Eating nothing but junk food can cause a very tired and weighty feeling. Remember, the body has used a lot of nutrients in the scene and needs those replaced. Proteins (meats, cheeses, nuts) will help the body recover but may be too heavy for immediately after a scene.
There is nothing wrong with craving sugary treats after a scene as long as you balance it out with a good meal as well later on. The results of eating only junk food can be a very bloated feeling later that night or the next day which can trigger aspects of mental sub drop (feeling unattractive, bloated, depressed). Eating a good light meal of proteins and lots of veggies will replenish the body of the nutrients lost during a scene. It is advisable to do this when the submissive has recovered sufficiently from the scene later that same day.
If the submissive does eat treats directly after, balance that with intake of water to help flush the system as well to avoid a tired feeling. Fresh fruit is always a good thing to have on hand after a scene as it can satisfy the sweet craving, provide simple sugars, and will not leave the system bogged down with junk food.
Mental Sub Drop
This form of Sub Drop is much harder to typify. It varies in such a great degree from person to person but usually takes the forms of guilt, anxiety, melancholy, depression, and or agitation. While this may happen immediately or within a few hours accompanying physical sub drop, it may also take several days to occur. It is not unheard of for it to happen a week or so after a hard scene.
Several factors may affect mental sub drop and should be discussed before play begins. Things such as mood altering medications, mental conditions, ongoing therapy, or recent events in the submissives life. It is the responsibility of both parties to share this information before a scene to avoid surprise results. That is not saying that sub drop is caused by mental instability...mental sub drop happens with or without these factors, they just may contribute and thus should be known beforehand.
While there are mental aspects which coincide with the physical sub drop, the term Mental Sub Drop is most often used with a period after a scene when the submissive is overwhelmed with feelings of guilt, isolation, and/or depression. This can happen days afterwards and can happen with a new play partner or someone you have played with a dozen or more times. It is not indicative of a bad scene and should not be taken as regret. It is quite simply the last effect of the intensity of a scene . . . the final burn out on the emotions.
Submissives often will have a carefree feeling after a good scene, a lessening of stress and worries. When this feeling fades it can be replaced by other, less then desirable emotions. The gambit of negative emotions is so wide as to be nearly impossible to list here but the root cause is the same. It is coming down off an emotional high. It's that simple.
Imagine riding a roller coaster, all the dips and spins and drops and climbing higher and higher. It's a very exciting ride. Now imagine going from that directly into a 12 hour wait in a doctors office, with no magazines or TV. Imagine going from that much stimulation to nothing so quick and then imagine the effect of that on your mind. This is a very crude example but it can help you understand where some of the mental sub drop comes from.
Sub drop can also be brought about by a feeling of disconnection. During the scene a feeling of intense intimacy can be created for the submissive (and dominant too BTW) and if that contact is not maintained in some way, a feeling of loss can set in. A feeling of isolation and disconnection is created in the void left behind. During a scene a submissive looks to the dominant for a feeling of safety, allowing themselves to feel vulnerable and exposed. That feeling of vulnerability can lead to a feeling of desertion if there is no continued contact with the submissive. They can feel used and left behind or cast aside.
Guilt and shame are also very common feelings experienced during sub drop. Sometimes these feelings are brought about by social stigmas given to BDSM play and sexual activity, sometimes they are from social stigmas about gender roles (this is especially prevalent with male submissives), sometimes they are the result of the feelings of loneliness and isolation, but most often they are a combination of all of these factors.
Many times, especially for new submissives, social perceptions of sexual roles and acceptable practices can cause confusion in the days following a scene. Society tends to look upon "kink" in a very unfavourable light and drums that into people's heads through the media, religion, and social arch types we are encouraged to look up to. It can be traumatic when you first venture outside what is considered the normal sexual activities and left alone, some people will have a deep seated feeling of guilt or shame set in based upon these social ideals.
Mental sub drop can have long lasting effects as well. A very bad occurrence with no care given can damage or destroy a relationship, the bond of trust being severed between the two. As with all emotional things, sub drop can influence future reactions to scenes as well. It is important that every effort is made to make sure that a scening experience ends as a positive thing and not a bad experience.
The best way to deal with mental sub drop is simple, ACE:
A after care directly after the scene.
C contact in the days following the scene
E expression of positive reinforcement to the submissive
Aftercare should be more then just making sure the submissive is OK physically. It should also be a period of positive reinforcement, reassurance, and connection. The submissive is especially vulnerable in the period directly after a scene before they have regained their wits, they need to feel safe, valued, and cared for during this period so that the whole scene experience is a positive one.
Contact is essential to making sure the experience remains positive for the submissive. Not just casual contact either, be prepared to really listen and allow the submissive to express what they are feeling. Many times deep emotions come up during this period and providing a receptive outlet for them, you can help the submissive explore all the things conjured up by the scene.
Positive reinforcement is one of the most crucial aspects of aftercare. With a few kind words you can allow the submissive to feel pride in themselves. Don't butter them up or blow sunshine up their ass . . . express honest thoughts and emotions to them. Compliment them on how they did and what they did well. This single aspect of after care will have the greatest affect on avoiding severe mental sub drop. Making it a positive experience can help dispel any guilt or shame felt later.
Sounds like withdrawl from drug use to me. Which, in fact, isn't far from the truth I suppose.
Thanks Nikita, that was a great article, that was easy to read and very practical.
Timberwolf, I agree, it does sound a lot like drug withdrawal to me too.
Well, it IS drug withdrawal, isn't it? With all those hormones that are released during an intense session...
Thank you so much for posting that. I've experienced mental subdrop, but didn't know what it was or why. (I knew physical after effects were common but didn't think about the mental)
I thought I was just being silly or pathetic and even though my master always gives me lots of love and reassurance when I feel bad, I never understood why I would feel like I did esp. since I always know logically that everything is o.k. and that he still wants me.
It's good to know it's not just me and that it isn't because I'm "bad" or something.
Thank you!
Excellent well-balanced article! Thanks for posting it.
Adding my thanks nikita - don't think I have ever seen it quite so simply or helpfully described. It can be a horrible to place to be, and every sub should have that article tucked under their pillow; either to read to themselves or give to their Dominant partner.
Oh - and looking back to your original question Aussiegirl - it is very real, and can happen even with the best of aftercare.
cariad
I am so glad you have found a reason for why you were feeling like you did. It is always reassuring to know it is not just you and that you are not "bad".Quote:
Originally Posted by hotfirefly
I agree. my husband/master and I are pretty new to this and I don't think he knows about subdrop either. I've already printed the article out to show him. When we talk he tells me that he worries that he's hurt me too much or gone too far and I can tell he's more tentative the next time. which makes me feel worse for causing him doubt since it wasn't too much (not by a long shot! hehe) and makes me nervous that he is nervous.Quote:
Originally Posted by cariad(CC)
did that make sense? :confused:
anyway it's a viscious circle. but I think that after reading the article, we can anticipate any mental effects more. and I think that just being aware of them and know why they are there will make them much better, if not easier, to deal with.
smiles - well it makes perfect sense to me hotfirefly. Guess it is back the old theme of communication - we have to have it, is great when it works, but yuck when it fails.
Wishing you joy.
cariad
Thanks Nikita and Aussiegirl
This has helped me understand more clearly something that happened to me last week when a scene was incredibly intense and lasted longer than it should have, not that i was complaining at the time, and Master couldn't stay for as long as he/we would have liked afterwards.
I felt terrible directly after, deeply depressed and questioning of myself and my desires, making myself feel guilty for liking what i do sexually, thinking i was soiled and dirty. I was lucky that it did not last long as i could speak later that day to Master about it, but at the time it was painful and i wasn't fully aware that it was a side effect to what had just taken place.
Thankfully I snapped out of it pretty quickly, with help, and I remembered how wonderful everything was during the scene and decided to focus on that. When we put our minds and bodies through such intense actions and feelings it is of no surprise that there will be side-effect but us humans still think we are invincible and don't always take necessary precautions.
Come to think of it...
... I think I've experienced a mental subdrop online once. I didn't know what the hell it was at the time but it sounds about right.
We'd roleplayed out in great detail a particulalry personal and a bit unusual scene, and I got hit with *exactly* what is listed in the mental sub drop after it was over. I thought it was just the scene itself that maybe I'd had a subconcious problem with, but this article sheds a new light on that incident.
This article might very well be must-read stuff. Never heard of it before this, even though I'd experienced it. Thanks very much for posting it. Because neither I or the person who then had to deal with my unusual reaction had any clue what was actually happening.
Sweet Slave,Quote:
Originally Posted by slave327-834-200
I can't caution you enough to take all steps necessary to see the above doesn't happen often.
I had the exact same feelings you did after the first few times we had heavy scenes. He would ask if I was ok, and I'd say yes. But, in reality, I felt so horrible...for days...and he picked up on it and insisted we talk immediately after every scene. At that time we were still learning about each other, so he took me at my word. And I was not experienced so I didn't know about sub-space or anything. So now, he cares for me until I'm safely back on earth. *grin*Quote:
Master couldn't stay for as long as he/we would have liked afterwards. I felt terrible directly after, deeply depressed and questioning of myself and my desires, making myself feel guilty for liking what i do sexually, thinking i was soiled and dirty.
Another thing, if there are any mood swings, you must inform one another of this. It is unfair to keep this information from each other. It will help to avoid any emotional mishaps.
Everyone is different, reactions vary from person to person, but deprivation of aftercare is a mind-fuck.
One time, I observed intense play and humiliation for the first time in r/l. The dom questioned his sub to see where she was mentally, for example, 'what color are your shoes, what did you eat for dinner, etc.' Once she started faltering on the easy questions, he brought her down very quickly, covered her with a blanket, held her tight for a long time, and then rubbed her reddened parts with cream. This showed me how much of a responsibility it is to be a dominant. (The word 'good' is a given.)
This is a great thread Aussiegirl. Your question opened dialogue, and elicited sharing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nikita
Nikita
Thank you again for your very wise and kind words *giving you a massive hug*
It's so easy in retrospect to see what had happened and we have discussed it at great length since, but of course at the time I had done the same as you did during your sub drop, I said "Of course I'm fine darling, don't worry about me, I'm a big girl" - which couldn’t have been further from the truth.
I suppose I am just use to saying this in my normal life, I have always been a fiercely independent person and I like to be able to cope myself, but having never experienced this before I didn't realise how much I needed my Master’s reassurance and love straight afterwards. But as I said before although he could not be there physically he was there later online and he gave me everything I needed. (Thanks my Flower)
Although the temptation will always be there to use our time together to the fullest I know we will never not leave adequate time for aftercare again, a lesson hard learnt!
Thanks again to Aussiegirl for starting this thread, has really helped me, and I imagine others too! *kisses*
I am just so glad this thread has proved to be of help to so many people. Again, I must thank Nikita for her article, but also thank you to those who have contributed so far. It is something I have not personally experienced but being new to all this, it is something I will be aware of.
Aussiegirl
Sub drop- (I hate the term, but what can you do? Whoever came up with the D/s dictionary has a lot to answer for)
It's something that sounds silly & obvious to all those, except the subs who have suffered from it. I've spoken with a few women who have been very upset by the offhand manner they've been treated to after a session.
It's easy to overlook- in simple terms a Dom needs to tell his sub she may be feeling down after a session, sometimes hours or even days afterwards.
He needs to stay with her immediately after the session & not just walk away. Not like a certain Tojo who in his last full-on session, almost did just that. (I was blinded by the intensity- I'm not perfect!)
The young lady in question said 'don't just go & leave me' or words to that effect, which started my brain working again.:32:
I liken it to 'straight' sex or intimacy- it's not nice to play around with someone's emotions for 2 hours or whatever, then pull your boots on & go out. Or to just roll over & go to sleep. Aftercare.
Thanks to the aforementioned young lady, I'll remember that always- if I ever indulge in a full-on D/s relationship again.
Apologies for lack of political correctness in this & other posts- I'm too lazy to put he/she, Dom/me every time. A sub is a sub & a Dom/me a Dom/me to me, male female or uncertain. Vive la difference.
Tojo
Ultimately, isn't it exactly the same as vanilla sex? Isn't that why cuddling is so important in all venues.
yeah, Oz...I think it's the same issue, only in bigger dimensions. Coming to terms with having had 'nilla sex is way easier...;)
This is a great thread! Thanks aussiegirl for starting it and thanks nikita for article.
i went through this and didn't even know what it was. It was a very intense session, my body was hurting and my mind was somewhere it has never been before. Even though, my Mistress was with me physically, She had me on webcam and stayed with me for a long time soothing me. She probably didn't know what was going on either. i'm glad she had the foresight and instinct not to leave me.
God i love that Woman!!
You're lucky to have someone so supportive.
Thanks TW,
i thank my lucky stars everyday!
great thread had to bump it
*bump*