Adolescentilism

This is an excerpt from "Different Loving" by Gloria Brame.

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Adolescentilist fantasies among heterosexual D&Sers almost always focus on physical discipline......The authority figure is unlikely to assume responsibility in nonerotic matters, and the fantasy is likely of only temporary duration. The roles, without exception, are played for the sake of psychosexual gratification (although there may be no directly sexual activity), and partners revert to egalitarian (or, among lifestylers, top-bottom) roles.

Leather or not, a daddy plays a transformational role in his partner's life and may help shape and improve his partner's self-esteem. Fatherly counsel may include wardrobe selection and social etiquette......The dynamic of the relationship is that a familiar, trustworthy, mature partner initiates a younger partner into adulthood.

The daddy in a leather love affair additionally instructs his boy in submissive service. Daddy-boy also enhances the self-esteem of the daddy who derives considerable pleasure from exerting a positive, loving influence over a trusting partner.

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I found myself disagreeing with Mrs. Brame's assessment that this type of age play is primarily a disciplinary roleplay for heterosexuals because I'm a hetero female who has a daddy-girl relationship. In fact, I didn't even know it was a gay thing. I had the impression that "daddy doms" were quite common amongst heteros since I got a few hundred responses to my profile on collarme, which clearly states that I want to be Daddy's girl. Am I mistaken? Do most people really just act it out occasionally and go back to being purely adults as soon as the scene is over? If so, why are there so many doms professing to be daddies? I have a dom who doesn't think it's weird for me to call him Daddy all the time, so how rare could it possibly be? Am I one of very few submissive females who would rather have a loving daddy than a strict master? Your thoughts on this are more than welcome.

Red, this is a tough one to give an answer to. What I can say is that I do know of a couple who does the Daddy thing 24/7, but most people I know who do this only scene. This does not make the sample I know of representative, it is just my experience. If both people want to make it work, almost anything can work.

That said, I also would take exception to what she is saying. My guess is that she was focusing on Daddy/boy relationships, which would be rather rare with heterosexual couples. Maining a Daddy/boy relationship with a male female couple would present unique challenges, and would probably be easiest only as a scene.

Another point, there is a widespread Head of Household movement that closely resembles Daddy/daughter, but is more about the wife submitting even to physical discipline from her husband. Thewse relationships are 24/7, and often the wife is treated like a daughter for punishment purposes.

Also, I have never seen a Daddy/bot relationship in a lesbian couple. I have seen Mother/daughter there, and they seemed happy. I cannot say if they were 24/7 or not because I did not know them that well.

Red. I like your version of Daddy's girl.

I don't think it's the exception at all.
I'd prefer one of this type.. sort of let me be a sugardaddy.
grins mischeivously.

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Originally Posted by Rhabbi

Another point, there is a widespread Head of Household movement that closely resembles Daddy/daughter, but is more about the wife submitting even to physical discipline from her husband. Thewse relationships are 24/7, and often the wife is treated like a daughter for punishment purposes.

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My relationship is not an incestuous father/daughter roleplay at all. I may act a little childish at times, but I never act like a child. It has more to do with him being an older man (17 years older) and giving me guidance when needed, a father figure. It's about caring, nurturing and encouraging me to be a good girl for him rather than slave training and protocols. Of course, I love it when he treats me like a "little girl," i.e. giving an order and then asking if I understand, and gives me a spanking because humiliation is one of my kinks.

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Originally Posted by Wolfscout

Red. I like your version of Daddy's girl.

I don't think it's the exception at all.
I'd prefer one of this type.. sort of let me be a sugardaddy.
grins mischeivously.

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Ty, Wolfscout! *smiles* Now I don't feel so weird for being a 21-year-old trapped in a 31-year-old's body!

Having lived in a LDD relationship, where my Dominant was more HOH, I understand full well the concept of Daddy/daughter relationships. And even though I was older than he, he was very much my Daddy 24/7.

Certain things were expected from me and if I failed to complete a task properly and in a timely fashion; I did corner time, was spanked and reprimanded just as a child might be. Spankings, however, were done on a routine basis for maintanence and there was definitely a difference between "arousing" spankings and "you've been a bad girl" spankings.

Even in public the Daddy/daughter dynamic was obvious. As was the loving connection between the two of us. And whilst he respected my adult opinion and consulted me on everything, his word was final.

Therefore, I must take exception to what Mrs. Brame wrote.

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Originally Posted by Rhabbi

Also, I have never seen a Daddy/boy relationship in a lesbian couple. I have seen Mother/daughter there, and they seemed happy. I cannot say if they were 24/7 or not because I did not know them that well.

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I dunno about daddy/boy, but I know of some daddy/daughter lesbian relationships.

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Originally Posted by blythespirit

Certain things were expected from me and if I failed to complete a task properly and in a timely fashion; I did corner time, was spanked and reprimanded just as a child might be.

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That is actually juvinilism, which I also enjoy. I may start a thread about it, also.

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Originally Posted by gloombunny

I dunno about daddy/boy, but I know of some daddy/daughter lesbian relationships.

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In the book, Mrs. Brame claims that some lesbians engage in daddy-boy relationships where both act like males psychologically. I suppose anything is possible.

Due to the limited number of responses so far, I have to assume that Mrs. Brame is correct and that my relationship is the exception to the rule. The appeal it holds for me is that I had an unhappy childhood/adolescence and was exposed to things I wasn't ready for, which means I "grew up" fast. Therefore, I feel a great need to be taken care of and feel safe and protected. In return, I want to make Daddy happy and proud.

As a side note, I find any reference to daddy-daughter instead of daddy-girl personally revolting, although I'm aware that some people find ageplay an acceptable outlet for incest fantasies. All I will say about that is whatever floats your boat, but don't call me daughter.

Red - I do know one couple who lives the Daddy/girl life 24/7. It works for them and is very loving and sweet. That being said - it is so not my thing, but I can see how it works really well for some. :)

Red, I can't say I know much at all about Daddy-girl relationships. I do know that if it works for you, it works for me.

Lets face it, we all enter relationships for lots of different reasons and if you feel safe and protected, that is wonderful!

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That is actually juvinilism, which I also enjoy. I may start a thread about it, also.

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Please do, because by definition juvinilism and adolescentilism are synonymous and grouped with other perverted acts. And frankly, we didn't practice either as a paraphilic act. Nor does anyone else I know who lives by the LDD standards. It just is what it is.

But I'm truly interested in learning more, by your definition, as quite frankly, it did arouse me sexually when I was chided or otherwise put in my place. And that was most definitely frowned upon.

Hmm...what about us "Uncles"?

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Originally Posted by Flaming-Redhead

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Due to the limited number of responses so far, I have to assume that Mrs. Brame is correct and that my relationship is the exception to the rule. The appeal it holds for me is that I had an unhappy childhood/adolescence and was exposed to things I wasn't ready for, which means I "grew up" fast. Therefore, I feel a great need to be taken care of and feel safe and protected. In return, I want to make Daddy happy and proud.

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Redm that makes perfect sense to me, I can feel the depth and beauty of your relationship creeping through your words.

Although it is not my thing, I am really pleased you have found what is right for you.

Hugs
cariad

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Originally Posted by Uncle_Ed

Hmm...what about us "Uncles"?

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Uncles are different...very different.

And in my opinion the world would be a better place if everyone had one (more than one would not only be greedy but also potentially unsafe).

Your niece

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Originally Posted by Flaming-Redhead

That is actually juvinilism, which I also enjoy. I may start a thread about it, also.
...
Due to the limited number of responses so far, I have to assume that Mrs. Brame is correct and that my relationship is the exception to the rule. The appeal it holds for me is that I had an unhappy childhood/adolescence and was exposed to things I wasn't ready for, which means I "grew up" fast. Therefore, I feel a great need to be taken care of and feel safe and protected. In return, I want to make Daddy happy and proud.
...

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Red, don't judge opinions.. or lack thereof .. by the lack of input on a particular subject matter.
Most don't participate in rl to have a opinion ... grins.
Others form opinions based on other outside influences that are unrelated at best.
You know what works for you .. and you have had my input here and elsewhere.
Luck to you in it darlin'.

I'm a Daddy's girl....although I've never really had a Daddy. I tend to push my boyfriends into the roll of Daddy. Some find it annoying and call me needy, some ignore it. My current bf I think likes it a little. He makes rules and the such, but there is no follow through.

(My need probably can't be filled until I have a Dom, which is something I have never found irl)

It really depends on the why of what you're into. Red did an excellent job explaining why she wants and needs this in her life. Me? I'm just kinky and like role-playing.

But this idea that it's only for gays and lesbians- nah. Ms. Brame needs to do more research. I volunteer to collect data if necessary. :rolleyes:

:wave:

Although I have grown out of it, I was very much a Daddy's girl when younger, in as much as all my partner's were older, father-figures, and I looked to them for guidance and (non-physical) discipline - but also for unconditional love, however badly I behaved. And I did push that bit... This was in a totally non-bdsm-aware context, but the relationships still hold true to that style.

I found Ms Brame's statements extremely un-informed.

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Originally Posted by blythespirit

Please do, because by definition juvinilism and adolescentilism are synonymous and grouped with other perverted acts.

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Adolescentilism has more to do with mentoring someone who hasn't fully matured into adulthood but is not a child, i.e. high-school or college-aged, although being a smartass and getting taken out behind the woodshed so to speak is part of it. *grins* There was no woodshed, but I was taken to the edge of the woods once for essentially telling him he wouldn't or couldn't do such a thing. I was educated to the contrary. I might act too big for my britches, but I'm definitely not too big for a spanking!

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Originally Posted by seriouslynosn

Some find it annoying and call me needy, some ignore it.

(My need probably can't be filled until I have a Dom, which is something I have never found irl)

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I'm somewhat needy. Ok, I'm a lot needy, but I try so very hard not to be. I always feel rather foolish for crying about not being called or asked to come over when I find out there was some major catastrophe he had to deal with. *sigh*

Where have you been lookin', darlin'? I found one within a week at collarme.

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Originally Posted by moptop

Although I have grown out of it, I was very much a Daddy's girl when younger, in as much as all my partner's were older, father-figures, and I looked to them for guidance and (non-physical) discipline - but also for unconditional love, however badly I behaved. And I did push that bit... This was in a totally non-bdsm-aware context, but the relationships still hold true to that style.

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I noticed my partners got progressively older when I started dating in my teens. I went from dating guys my age to dating seniors....to dating adults...and eventually wound up marrying a man 11 years older than me. When I divorced him, I went the opposite way at first, dating guys significantly younger. They're fun for awhile! *weg* However, I've wound up with a much older man again. I prefer not to be the more mature partner in the relationship.

Unconditional love....*sigh* That's what I want, too. I also push that "badly behaved" bit because I want to know he'll stay and love me no matter what. Abandonment issues, anyone?!?!

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Originally Posted by Flaming-Redhead

Where have you been lookin', darlin'? I found one within a week at collarme.

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Recently I haven't been looking. I'm in a long time relationship, although we all know it can't last, not if I really want to be true to myself.

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Originally Posted by Flaming-Redhead

I noticed my partners got progressively older when I started dating in my teens.

Abandonment issues, anyone?!?!

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You sound a lot like me. I did the same thing, in high school my bf was 30. In college my bf was 45. I have a bf right now, strangely he is a year younger than me. He's super smart and loves me lots. But...ya know, there's that.

Oh, and I have huge abandonment issues. Perhaps that's the underlying need for me to be a submissive. I feel like fulfilling the hopes and dreams of a man or woman will make them somehow feel that I am theirs. It's like...possessiveness through be possessed by someone. (horribly off topic)

It sounds to me like Gloria Brame doesn't know her ass from a hole in the ground and that Red is the one that should be writing about Daddy/girl relationships and adolescentilism. I had never understood that part of the lifestyle very well until Red described it the way she lives it. I was always just a tad uncomfortable with the Daddy thing. I guess I had that ignorant "incest" opinion about it. Now I am much better educated. Thanks Red, and it does my heart good to see you so happy. **HUG** ~blizz~

LOL @ bizz! I just want to thank everyone who has responded. Sharing your experiences and well wishes is what makes this place so great, and if sharing my kink helps someone feel not so alone, as Mrs. Brame made me feel somewhat odd, so much the better!

Just as in the daddy-boy relationships she focused on, my daddy advises me on appropriate hair color/length (since crimson or blazing copper would not be appropriate if I attended any of his work-related events), clothing (he likes dresses and sexy, but not slutty, clothing; apparently, anything which my ass hangs out of is not appropriate to wear in public...who knew? *ggls*) and behavior (no pouting). He has given me advice on how to make sure I pay my bills on time, which I haven't exactly put into practice yet. :o I'm anxiously awaiting the day when he says blue or purple fingernail polish is inappropriate. Do I know better? Sure I do, but I'll wait until he tells me.... :p

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Originally Posted by Flaming-Redhead

All I will say about that is whatever floats your boat, but don't call me daughter.

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The picture left will remind you? :p Sorry.

What about teacher/student fantasies? That's the only kind of ageplay I've ever gotten really excited by -- probably because I've had crushes on teachers since I was little, and I've always fantasized about being alone with one in the classroom after school hours... :o

I heard that song in my head right after I typed that! LOL

You're absolutely correct. A misbehaving high-school student who receives physical punishment with her skirt raised or his pants lowered is a very popular scenario. This is the type of scene Mrs. Brame suggested was the most common form of adolescentilism practiced by heterosexuals. It's funny you should mention it, though. My dom is a teacher, and I have a school girl outfit. LOL

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Originally Posted by Flaming-Redhead

I heard that song in my head right after I typed that! LOL

You're absolutely correct. A misbehaving high-school student who receives physical punishment with her skirt raised or his pants lowered is a very popular scenario. This is the type of scene Mrs. Brame suggested was the most common form of adolescentilism practiced by heterosexuals. It's funny you should mention it, though. My dom is a teacher, and I have a school girl outfit. LOL

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Mine was a teacher when we first met -- people had funny reactions when we mentioned that he was a college English teacher and I was an undergrad majoring in English. Nothing unethical; it wasn't at the same school. :) But yeah, gotta love the schoolgirl outfits. And rulers... um... what was I talking about again? ;)

I actually have this fantasy where I show up for his class wearing a short skirt with no panties and sit in the front row. *ggls* There are about 80 students in there, so no one would know I didn't belong. Anyway, after flashing him, I get held after class and taken to his office....*weg*

Red, as I said in my earlier post this is not something I have had a lot of exposure to. I think that is because it approaches one of my limits more than anything. That said, I am learning a lot about it through the replies to this thread, and your responses. You are doing a great job of educating people about this. My visceral feeling when reading the quote you supplied from Ms. Brame's book was that her sample was limited. She specifically looked at Daddy/boy relationships, and did not even acknowledge the wider field where these types of relationships work in a healthy manner. Thank you for at least opening my eyes, and helping me to overcome a prejudice through educating me.

You're welcome! I'm always glad to share.

Oh, btw, my dom is a college professor, not a high school teacher, in case anyone was wondering. Still, ya gotta admit, it would be pretty damn hot if we could get away with it. *ggls*

Having interviewed a number of "experts" in the erotica and sexuality fields, a large number of them DO indeed seem only to be "long termers" with opinions no better than amateurs but greater public exposure through one means or another (i.e. usually through the writing of a book). Making generalized statements when the topic is highly subjective and where experience will vary widely seems a bit of a fool's game, but we all do it anyway.

Age play, role play, fantasy or r/l play should be as creatively satisfying as your sensual partner and you can make whatever public opinion may say about it. if we delve too deeply into the "psychology" of whys and wherefores, we can certainly ruin the entire pleasure factor. If a woman has a so-called Daddy complex why must "society" try to 'cure her" if she gets pleasure from it? Of course, when extreme and unsatisfying that's another matter, but if it works, why fix it?